Getting the feel for randori

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Mangosteen, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I've started back at MA recently and joined a judo club.
    Tachiwaza randori however has been... humbling to say the least.

    The part I'm having difficulty is finding a feel for the opponents balance in randori so i can unbalance them - it feels very different to no-gi and I'm not really sue how to develop.

    An useful reddit thread had advice from a BJJ purple belt who got his judo shodan breaking down learning tips for a BJJ blackbelt tarting as a Judo white belt:
    - Don't play defensive, play offensive as much as possible as it'll help you learn the entries to throws.
    - Don't stiff arm and learn to take grips quickly
    - It takes a long time to learn balance - several commenters chimed in that they had seen many white belt BJJ players do very well against newbies after only 6 months of training but few white belt judoka do well against newbies after a year of training despite a larger library of techniques as developing the sense of balance is something only gained through instinct and experience.

    I have found that I play defensive lot, I have only tried to throw twice in 3 classes and thats largely down to confusion on how to enter - the foot work in randori seems VERY different to the footwork and entries you learn in class.

    I'm sure its just a matter of sticking at it until it clicks or i develop a sense of balance with the extra levers of the gi but freestyle wrestling came so intuitively to me in comparison.

    Any advice would be really appreciated
    Mushroom likes this.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don;t be afraid to "go for it" - this ties in with the aggressive approach, but I find the more you commit and go for it the more they react and the more they react the more you can do a secondary throw
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah the aggressive thing is weird. I'm like "I don't know what I'm doing, why would I be aggressive about it? I'll just get countered quicker".

    In wrestling it's way easier because a single and a double and "being aggressive" is easy to understand. Why would I try and foot sweep though if I'm going to be countered?

    Obviously there is something to this so I will try to be more aggressive in randori too.
    Mangosteen likes this.
  4. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    It can be common to default to stiff armed defense in tandoori, especially when you're new to it, but you'll learn more aggressively committing to a throw, and try out any recently drilled combinations or counters.

    Also if you stick with the stiff armed defense too often against higher belts then you may find some trying tomo nage on you :D

    Get an idea of different grip variations which set you up for certain throws and combinations, and think about how to get those on first quickly rather than the standard one sleeve one lapel grip.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Chadz - exactly what I think!
    It's hard to be aggressive when your really not sure. I think I'll try going for one throw from that days class with all the different grips.

    I think the distance and options in wrestling make it easier to find opportunities - other white belts not knowing the rules often leg grab so it's a very instinctual thing compared to countering sweeps . I often some how arm drag to their backs and have to stop myself suplexing them
    Late for dinner, axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    There's some nice pickups from the back position, but either be gentle or pickup and footsweep /knee block them, otherwise they'll mash you back.

    I found just trying the throws from the days class, and going light, helped them do the same and we could build up from their, being overly defensive, encourages your partner to be overly aggressive which ends up in a viscous cycle.
    axelb and Mangosteen like this.
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Nice to hear you're back training again chap :)
    Mangosteen likes this.
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Try to drag your opponent and move in circle. You will feel either your opponent resists against you, or yields into you. If you want to push, you should pull first.

    You should give before you can take.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  9. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Keep it simple develop one forward and one backward throw commit to one in order get the other, ie ouchi gari to get them moving backwards them snap them forward too ipon seonagi. Or even ouchi to osoti gari. Get them moving before you try anything,

    It's hard to be aggressive in judo because it usually means turning your back to your opponent and that is never easy

    Oh and give yourself a break you are three classes in, it may be the gentle art but it's not the easy art
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's not the gentle art either. :)
    Judo was, by far, the hardest martial art I've tried. The grips, the balance, the entries, the counters, conforming your body to the throw shape AND the opponents body, getting thrown. Brutal.

    Personally I picked one throw (uchimata...probably not the best for a beginner) and tried to work that and then see what other throw flows naturally off that when it fails (I picked kouchi gari). Got that to work-ish a couple of times before the toll on the body was too much for an old geezer like me. :(
    Knee Rider likes this.
  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah the place I'm training at is pretty chill but still hard.
    Mangosteen likes this.
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    There are at least 2 solutions for this.

    1. Use under hook or over hook. This way your opponent's arm cannot wrap around your waist.
    2. Enter when your have move to the side of your opponent. This way you don't need to turn.

    When you are tired, at least you can use your "stiff arms" to hold your opponent back, and rest for few seconds. You can't do that in wrestling, boxing, or MT.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    Mangosteen likes this.
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    So because of the uni having a reading week, I've basically had private sessions from black belts.
    I I asked if we could work on grip fighting and in addition they advised I pick a throw to specialise in for now and work on that.

    I would like to specialise in uchi mata cos they're pretty but I know seoi nage are a throw useful for beginners mechanics and technical skills and was advised to work on that.

    I'm going to be working on grip fighting and seoi nages.

    Also yeah my groundwork is full of gaps after such a long lay off.
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The leg lift (uchi mata) can be the most difficult throw to develop. Many people like to develop this technique. It requires good

    - single leg balance,
    - leg flexibility,
    - leg lifting power.

    IMO, it's quite risky if your opponent know how to jump and ride on your back (or neck). A friend of mine was paralyzed by his opponent's counter "ride" and spent the rest of his life on wheelchair.

    But instead of trying to lift your opponent's inner upper leg up, if you spring his leg from inside out, it can be easier. When you do that if you follow with a foot sweep to the other leg, that can be a nice low risk combo.
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Hey so an update.

    I have changed my approach to training and it sucks but iIs helpful.

    So Ive been trying not to play my good game (top game) and working on recovering guard, escapes and elevator/half butterfly sweeps.

    Ive I asked the judo club to start drilling one forward and one back throw a lot each session. I'm actually starting to understand throws now
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Are your guys competing at the Clyde in April? I'm going to do it I think.

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