Headbutts in Muay Thai?

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Adam, Jun 24, 2003.

  1. Adam

    Adam New Member

    I read in an article about muay thai that traditional muay thai has headbutts in it as well. Has this been removed from the art entirely? If not, it should be called the art of nine limbs instead.
  2. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    It is very probably that headbutts were part of the art in its original battlefield incarnation and then removed once the sportive version of the Muay Thai was created.

    I seem to remember reading that the Burmese art, Bando, is very similar to Muay Thai except that it isn't a ring sport and still includes head butts and ground-fighting elements.

    Either way I'm not sure that your head can be considered a limb :p

  3. AsSaSiN

    AsSaSiN New Member

    They were also allowed to bite, in fact encouraged.

    MR MAUYTHAI New Member

    in answer to your question YES there was headbutts but not allowed in the ring anymore:( but we can still drop elbow to the flat spot on top of your skull:eek: and the thais love a good elbow fight and knees and !!!come to think about they love a good fight:rolleyes:
  5. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Headbutts in Burmese Boxing (Bama Lethwei), are legal in the Ring Sport, which is pretty much the same as Muay Thai, apart from mostly the sport is fought with bare knuckles, or just hand wraps, ala Muay Cad Cheurk (Bare knuckle Muay thai).

    Also there are more legal throws allowed in Bama Lethwei than Ring Rules Muay Thai, including Hip throws and Pick-Ups/ throwdowns etc, which are against the Ring Rules of Sporting Muay Thai.

    Sorry to contradict, but Bando is the name for the art which is the source of Bama Lethwei and not Burmese Boxing itself.
    Bando is a total Martial art that allows for everything and is not a sport, whatsoever:
    In Burmese Martial Arts the terms are as follows=

    Thaing (Self-Protection, the name encompassing all these arts)
    Bando (More evasionary, complete art)
    Bama Lethwei (Burmese Boxing, the Fighting Art/Ring Sport)
    Nabuan (Wrestling, Ground Fighting etc)
    Banshay (Weapons)

    Lethwei matches are mostly standup affairs, these days...
    And some of the fighters are very good, it's fast becoming a Professional force to be reckoned with...
  6. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    Thanks for the info SoKKlab, no contradiction there my info was just wrong or based on incomplete research.

    Have you experienced any of the Burmese arts?

  7. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    A little Dred,
    A Burmese guy that I met on a college course was pleased when I asked him to show me some Bama Lethwei and Bando. I think that he was glad that someone even knew what it was...Most Bando is more evasionary and likes to destroy the attacking limbs before attacking the body.

    I've done abit of research into Burmese Martial Arts, because I was planning on making a documentary about the Golden Belt, which is the annual state run Bama Lethwei championship.

    Obviously Myanmar (Burma) has serious political problems, so really, the Docu isn't of much importance on the scale of things.

    Most of the Lethwei techniques are near enough the same as Muay Thai-certainly Muay Boran anyway.

    The Bando was fantastic, very practical and destructive, with lots of elbows knees throws etc only wish that I could learn more.

    The Bando system is based on Animals such as Bull, Boar, Tiger, Panther, Eagle, Buffalo, Python, Viper, Cobra, Scorpion etc. 9 Animals all together plus three bonus ones, Monkey, Bird of the Field and The Stag.

    The Boar Bando is Bama Lethwei-Elbows, knees, headbutts, stamps etc

    The Python represents strangles, seizures, crushes etc
    Each animal having certain fighting characteristics, like a lot of Chinese systems.

    The Burmese see Bama Lethwei as the starting point and Bando as the higher achievement.

    Bando has now been organised into a Martial Art with a proper curriculum and certainly imported a little influence from the Japanese during WW2. Schools are rare outside of Myanmar (Burma). In Europe, the only organisation teaching Thaing/ Bando/ Bama etc is Based in South of France and has schools in Belgium as well. This is affiliated to Dr Gyi in The United States.

    The other teachers are in the States and represent the Kachin Lineage of Thaing/ Bando. It all gets very complicated and political from here, but essentially like any other art, there are different versions from different states/ peoples of Burma, which vary accordingly.
  8. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    That's great info SoKKlab!

    One of my best friends is half Burmese and I was really excited to meet his Dad to see if I could get some info on Burmese MA's. Unfortunately he's never heard of Bando. So all my ideas of finding my own personal Mr Miagi flew straight out of the window:D

    He did however teach me a little about Buddhism which I found very interesting.

    Seems like you've been doing your homework though. Are there any videos around that you know of - I'd really like to at least see some?

    I had come across the Kachin lineage and hit the politics thing. Not wanitng to get involved in systems with more politics than my own (JKD) I ceased enquiries.

    In the past couple of years I have also heard a fair amount about Dr Gyi but not really been able to get any solid information about Bando. For instance I am also very interested in the system of Yoga (letha) that he teaches. It sounds like an ideal complementary art. Unfortunately apart from a brief e-mail I received from one of Dr Gyi's students (subsequently lost in a virus attack) I haven't found out anything about letha apart from rumours of a forthcoming book.

    Swtiching bakc to the Thai side of things I have become interested in Thai Yoga massage too and this does at least seem to be something you can learn in London - although you do of course have to be a lot more minted than I am... oh well...

  9. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Apparently the FAMB (Federation Artes Martial Burman) in France are in the middle of making a series of Videos on Thaing-Bando-Lethwei etc. Bear in mind that they have been in the middle of this for an eon. They hardly ever answer emails, my French is petit, so I can't blame them really. I had planned to go over and train there. They are based around Grenoble. But Money dictates otherwise...

    Apparently the Thaing.net people in the States have made a bunch of vids, Camcorder style-but they never and I mean never, reply to my emails. Apparently I am not alone, as they never reply to anybody's emails (Like a lot of Martial Arts organisations...).

    Rebac Zoran who wrote the book Thai Boxing Dynamite, has done a Burmese Boxing video for Paladin press (USA), I've not seen it though, yet. Paladin press are mailing me loads of stuff to review for my website (Below), I'm hoping that that item will be amongst them...(Fingers Crossed).

    I have a Burmese Boxing video, it's a bunch of fights only. Which are hysterical because those guys are seriously trying to lamp each other-because there are no points wins in Bama Lethwei matches, you only win by knockout they look like Pub fights and are all-action...

    Most of the Politics side of things on the Bando front comes from Gyi's life story. All to do with the war in Burma and his part in it...
    The Kachin thing is all to do with who has the right to the Lineage.

    I do abit of Yoga, as you're right, it is an excellent complementary system to the Martial Arts and provides an antidote to some of our more extreme practices. Thai Yoga in London is, as far as I have found so far, extortionate and the latest thing for ladies what do lunch. Chinese Taoist Yoga is also an apparently excellent system, with similar attributes. I know very little about the Burmese Yoga system.

    BTW, where do you do JKD? And which direction have you gone in-JunFan-Filipino-Malay/Indo etc?
  10. Phil Dunlap

    Phil Dunlap Banned Banned


    www.thaing.net is my site. I send the email out today that is pasted below. Someone was nice enough to foward your post from this site to me I am sorry I have not gotten back to you in the past it is something I have been terrible with. if you have any questions pleas ask and i will try to answer.

    Email below:

    Concerning www.thaing.net Kachin Thaing/Bando


    You are receiving this email because either we have been in contact in the past or I received an email from you asking questions or initiating contact concerning the Kachin/Burmese Arts. I would like to apologize as I have been awful in getting back to people and will try to get better at getting back to people quickly. Due to my Career, Family and the school my time has been very limited but things have cleared up a bit. I have found your email list but have lost the original email. So I do not know if I responded or not.

    If you are still interested in initiating contact or asking questions please either email me back or post them at http://pub30.ezboard.com/badvancedfightingsystems and I will do my best to answer them. If you have moved on and are no longer interested I am sorry to have let you down.

    If you received this in error you are not on email list and will not be receiving other emails from us.

    I am planning on releasing a lot of information and materials over the course of the coming months and if you want to be updated we will be starting and email list just email list@thaing.net to be included just put subscribe in the header.

    Once again I am sorry for the delay and will do my best to get back to in a timely fashion.


    Phil Dunlap
  11. Phil Dunlap

    Phil Dunlap Banned Banned

    To anyone interested in seeing Burmese boxing I have a bunch of fight clips up on the lethwei page of my site www.thaing.net I hope you enjoy them.
  12. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Fantastic Phil,
    I have in the past sent you a few emails. I know that you were having problems with them, as I check your site from time to time.

    I'm very interested in what you have to teach and would like to get hold of the videos that you are making.

    I'm also very interested in learning thaing/ bando etc. Problem is there's you in America and the FAMB in France. I've not found anyone teaching burmese Martial Arts in the UK, whatsoever.

    Anybody know any Burmese Martial Arts schools in the UK?

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