How do you define JKD?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Yama Tombo, Oct 31, 2003.

  1. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Yes I have to say I agree, many will argue "But it's not JKD then!" - well it doesn't have to be called JKD. The fact is what you are doing is about JKD.

    JKD is a concept of self-development focused on constantly improving the neccessities, minimizing the inefficencies, removing the unessecary, and building on the practical.

    Very generally speaking though.
  2. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    no neb he was not the only one who got jkd, dan inosanto? poteet? wong?
    they found there jkd, rick young ,bob breen, they found there way,
    you can't define jkd. the last 130 odd post's show that.

    will take back the 1 in 10,000 comment, cos that would restrict it.
    remember when lee made that comment look at the people in that era
  3. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Ok I agree,

    Am still not sure with this whol cannot define JKD business though, because obviously one can.

    Inosanto has defined his interpretation, as has Bob Breen, as Have you, myself, we all have one way or another, no matter how bleak or uncertain.

    To ask the question, have we defined JKD correctly? is another matter. And, according to Si Gung Lee's philosophy, not one with any satisfactory answer.

    Then again, I do not feel we are far off the mark at all, as it were. Perhaps we were allready there but didn't know it, perhaps some of us are there, and others will follow shortly, whereas others may never be there, or get there then miss the oppurtunity.

    You know what?.... I think I'm going to stop there before I go into jibberish nonsense.
  4. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    i will go along with what you said neb.
    finally the guy who asked the question 140 posts later.
    you can't define jkd.
  5. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    "just" a concept? Why do you believe that JKD is "just" an extension of jun fan? I think it's more.

    I'm judo based, with jun fan kickboxing and muay thai for my striking. Little bit of aikido.

    It would be JKD. It's possible that it would come out as just a hash of Kali and BJJ. But if done properly, just as good a chance of being JKD as jun fan.

    tel - Agreed as well.
    Sometimes this fossilization of JKD makes me want to just say "mixed martial arts" or "freeform" as what I do, though. :confused:
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  6. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    Trolling now? As you stated this is discussion with varying points of view. My view dosen't count? It is backed with experience, maybe differant than others but a lot of it.

    I may have opened up the attack by stating your age but you are young and your training even if you started young would not be that extensive. My point you choose not to accept. Maybe I went at it wrong but you returned by attacking me and my system. Thats not dissing?

    Even tough you are young you do speak as if you are older but I don't call it trolling when you avoided to answer "who" trained you. I don't list all my instructor or even all the arts but I do list the ones that matter. Why don't you admit where you got your training? No big thing!

    If you read any of that stuff from that site I found last nite. JKD

    I've done a lot of that. It's posted all over my site. Thats not copying. It's just my way. You did diss me and my way.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Then why did he teach? Why didn't he simply lecture on the thought process?

    I've seen plenty of training footage where he makes small, detailed adjustments to what someone is doing. If he wasn't concerned with people learning his method, why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply explain his philosophy in a strictly didactic way?


    p.s. [Edited because it was more snarky than helpful.]
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  8. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    akja, If there was anything I dissed, with utmost intentionality, was your lack of maturity.

    You have your own system, you have your own way, style, personalised path in life. That's all great and all - But I wouldn't go so far as to preach about it to the extent that you are somehow a better martial artist than me or anybody else with different point of perspective.

    Age does not matter, rank does not matter, who I trained with does not matter. What does matter is the willingness and compassion a person shows when studying and practising their art with people from all walks of life. And their understanding of it. Which is not determined by Age.

    Having said that, I think it's clear by my thoughts that I am more than a novice to the martial arts and Bruce Lee's philosophy.

    But no doubt there are others here who have been doing it longer, harder and with more people. Does this automatically confirm that those younger with less time in the field must know less?

    Anybody can learn a skill - A man can learn to be a great mathematician if he spends 20 years contstantly researching and practising the subject. But, another can reach or even exceed the former man's skill in the same event with only a few years of experience on his shoulders.

    People's memory vary, people's looks vary, as do their colour, ethinic origin, height and intelligence. All on a natural level. And that includes their ability to grasp certain concepts quicker and better.

    By no means am I referring to myself. Merely making a point worth remembering. Judge people on neither what's on the inside or outside, but by their actions.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  9. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    This one is worth repeating because it seems like it gets to the heart of a large question thats being debated on the Kung Fu forum as we speak:

    What the relationship of techniques to principles/concepts etc. in a specific martial art?

    And this is the key nut to crack in understanding the different sides of the JKD debate. Not saying that I have the answer. But its the question and facts of the situation that we should be discussing.

    Great job cutting to the issue Stuart. Now, what's your personal feeling on it?

    - Matt
  10. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Bruce Lee taught people how to defend themselves because he was good at it, and because he wanted to.

    Some people wanted to just learn his methods, not everybody was concerned with a life-long path of discovering self needs and attributions in the martial arts.
  11. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'm quite sure that some people wanted to learn his methods. And he was willing to teach them his methods. Not simply his philosophy. That suggests one of two things to me. 1) He was willing to compromise on his philosophy very readily and teach methods anyway (which seems pretty unlikely) or 2) the methods were, in fact, important.

  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Thanks Matt!

    I suppose my take is this: Jun Fan is a necessary part of learning JKD (which is, in large part why I've never really considered myself a JKD guy; I studied from one of Inosanto's students, but never Jun Fan specifically).

    You asked the golden question. What is the relationship between the physical practice and the concepts/philosophy? I think we all agree that there is a connection. But what makes martial arts philosophy different from some other philosophies is that it's directly mapped to a physical practice. The concepts aren't just passed down didactically. They are embodied.

    It's my feeling that JKD's philosophy (and many other martial arts philosophies for that matter) cannot be passed down simply by word (either reading or hearing lectures from a qualified teacher). The physical experience of doing things a certain way drives home the concept. In other words, understanding follows performance because the learning is experiential.

    To my mind, Jun Fan is important because it's the physical framework that allows the concepts of JKD to be communicated in an experiential way, rather than just by word of mouth.

  13. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Agree'd and a good post, as I have said previously, you can't learn it from a book, you need a good instructor who can tell you where your going wrong and how to put it right, they are your guide and without one you are just wandering around aimlessly.

    So out of curiosoty Neb, where did you learn "your" JKD, who from and for how long. Fair enough question I think don't you?

    Best regards

    A person who does not consider himself a JKD person, But!........
  14. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    agree good post matt.
    jun fan is an important part of jkd after all its the base of jkd, just don't be bound by it
  15. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Are my ideas that confusing to you all? are they that different from your interpretations of Bruce Lee's beliefs?

    If so, then I supoose it does not matter any longer. I know I have said all that I can say on the subject. And I would rather not continue preaching the same point any longer.

    My JKD teacher? Do you all really want to know? Is it that important? Is that what matters? I suppose I owe this topic that much. Though I find it a difficult question.

    I suppose it would have to be the person who first introduced me to Jeet Kune Do - to the philosophy and to the physical. The person who has shown me their teachings and corrected my mistakes. The one who guided my journey into this magnificent art. His name is Bruce Lee, who will forever remain a teacher and guide, no matter how far I go, or how good I may become, his guidance will never go unappreciated, nor forgotten.
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    They don't have to be confusing for us to disagree Neb. They just have to be different. I get what you're saying. I simply disagree.

    Fair enough?

  17. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    is it a bit like no retreat and no surrender
    just joking i couldn't resist :D
  18. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    It seems that there are "others" who agree with Jun Fan being and integral part of the "JKD process." Thats my view and apparrently others too. If one "discards the boat AFTER crossing the river." Then so be it but it still was the boat or at least an important part of the boat.

    Neb, you tried to say I have no connection to JKD. Where did that come from. Because I choose to teach without the "label?" I don't understand?

    My Sigung was a part of the evolution of Jeet Kune Do in Oakland. He has trained me personally at times and I have a personal relationship with him but his son is my Sifu and always will be as well we are close friends. That is a "direct" connection to JKD.

    How and what I teach is my buisness. Now why won't tell where your JKD knowledge came from?

    Playing the "age is just a number" scenarion dosen't fly very far. There are many who can vouch for my abilities. Who can vouch for yours? Your JKD instructor? :D
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  19. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    Theres your quote "thinking I have no connection to JKD. Yes I started Jun Fan recently, in the mid-90's. After I had more than 20 years as a martial artist. When did you start and what have you done and who knows you??

    I state off and on because I tell the truth. The truth is I am a "product" of the "70's. Before you were a twinkle in your moms eye I spent several years incarcerated due to my "bad choices" as a young man. Try having a "beef" was someone and waking up one morning with that mother****er sleeping in the bunk right next to you. I've lived it and "understand" the true meaning of fighting and it's reprecussions. That is my off and on. I'm honest and don't hide anything and I'm still a martial artist for life. I have a long list of instructors who "know" me.

    I have a commercial buisness but I don't teach teach commercially. My close students come to me but I travel to most of my students. Thats how I run my "training" association in California. It works for me.
    This is me.

    Now who are you and why won't you tell the truth about who you are, where you trained and who your instructor is??
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    No young man they are not difficult and yes they are different, See here is the problem, when someone disagrees with you, you assume that we must be confused, don't talk to people like they are idiots just because they disdagree with you for you may find that it is you who may well be confused.

    There you go, you have answered your own question, 'YOU PREACH' to people, at the end of the day young man, who are you to preach to someone, on who's authority and by what expeariance do you have the right to do so?

    Well if telling us who your JKD teacher is, is so difficult for you, who is the confused one here? you see it is not a difficult question to answer unless you have something to hide.

    And that is suppose to be an answer, well I suppose it is, in a childish sort of way. That my freind is an imature cop out answer which anyone can use, Give us the real answer and maybe we would more than likely take you more seriously.


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