Jeet Kune Do-frauds

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by ma-observer, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    But I fill those gaps and I continue to call myself a WC guy...we are doing the same thing. The only difference is you disavow the style that you base whatever you learn on.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I would say that you are conditioned and bound by style and need the comfort of a label. If you do WC and Judo you are not a WC are a WC and Judo man OR more accurately you are a Mixed Martial Artist (GASP!!)

    Where does your groundwork come from? Are you a Jits man? A judoka? CACC? A wrestler?

    Or are you doing what I do and call it "grappling" - ergo, free of style bias and restriction

    I do not disavow ANY style - when i do something I can tel you EXACTLY where it came from, and exactly why it works and what it is limited by. I owe fealty to no system or founder and as a Full Instructor I am free to modify and even add and subtract ANYTHING I teach...Vu says he EXPECTS me to do this to make what i do truly my own
  3. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

  4. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    haven't seen you in a while!
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Lots to do. New house. New Job. More other projects.
  6. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Quote "when i do something I can tel you EXACTLY where it came from, and exactly why it works and what it is limited by." I don't really understand what you're trying to say..are you saying you can study a style for 3 weeks and tell all that? Telling where a style came from is as easy as jumping on wikipedia isn't it? I did judo when I was young. It's not a big enough part of my style that I identify myself with it. Thats why I don't call myself a WC and judo guy.

    Look at learning languages for example. People will pretty much always have an accent when they learn a second language - and how many people actually speak fluently in a second language unless they grew up learning both? Fill in a government form it will ask you what your 'native' language is.

    Can you learn a MA in less time than a language? We're talking 15 years here..even then with a language your'e far from fluent. You've given no time spent just said when you learn something you automatically understand strengths and weaknesses. Well one question that jumps out is given the huge differences in what's being taught in one art (and you could say slang and inflections etc in a language), how do you become such an authority as to be able to say that?

    As a basic guide, it takes maybe 15-20 years to become very good in one style. How are you going mix it up to the extent where you called yourself a MMA rather than a person who does X but also studied Y and Z when you've only got 100 years to live..

    [ame=""]Five For Fighting - 100 Years - YouTube[/ame]
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    It doesn't take boxers or nak muay nearly that long to get good. They're competing at a high level when they're comparatively young. I don't think length of time required to operationalize a style should be a measure of its validity.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don't be so stupid - in no way am I or have I said that. That is a strawman you have created to prove a point - and poorly at that

    So in other words that is like me saying I am a high school student because I did it in my youth

    You claim you "fill in the gaps" but clearly by your own definitions you cannot - the problem is that your stubborn, dogmatic style-centric approach prevents you from seeing this aspect.

    Many, many people are so fluent in many languages that you cannot tell they are not a native speaker. Some people have an aptitude for languages, some for maths and some for picking up physical skills

    Depends on the language but on the whole yes you probably can

    Then you are doing it wrong and your learning method is flawed....the same as training in an art if it takes this long.

    Training/learning 3 times a week in a dogmatic and restricted process leads to slower, ineffective gains in physical or intellectual pursuits. The reason you cannot develop quicker is all down to methodology

    Absolute nonsense - this is an arbitrary figure with no basis in reality. How do you quantify it?

    Because it is about training SMARTER not HARDER.

    Like I said, you re a prisoner to convention and doctrine - once things are trained conceptually your ability to improve increases 10 fold. The longer you remain dogmatic the longer it takes to improve
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    This is my spouse.

    She is multi-lingual

    She picks up a another language so easily, it seems natural for her

    She does not have any particular "accent" when she starts speaking in another language, because she naturally "accents" her voice, her tones, to the language of which she will speak

    Once, at a party, a Canadian thought she was French/France and a person from France, thought she was Canadian, but that was about the only unusual exchange she had with accents
  10. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Just out of curiosity...

  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I asked my Instructor about the eye jab thing, I said I would be much more comfortable with a fist, he said it's fine, just know that there is always another option.
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    To the OP:

    What else I would count as a JKD fraud is someone who disregards grappling as necessary. I just want to throw that in there.
  13. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Interesting post, your spouse is definitely lucky if she has such an aptitude for languages as it is (in my experience) a rare thing. I've lived in foreign countries for years and have many friends who have also lived overseas for over a decade and yet none of them would say they are totally fluent in their second language to the degree that a native speaker is, nor would they claim to speak without any hint of accent. My wife has been in Australia for 7 years now and whilst she can communicate without any problems, her English is riddled with mistakes (and this is after learning English thoughout her shool life and living in an English speaking country and basically comunicating all the time in English for those whole 7 years).

    The fact that a French person thought she was Canadian and a Canadian thought she was French would really suggest that she does in fact have an accent. I mean even among speakers of one language, people from the south for example can tell a person from the north.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  14. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Maybe a definition of what you mean by grappling would help. WC is about getting close and making contact, using open hands to redirect and trap. You could say that is (stand up) grappling or you may (as I suspect you do) define grappling as grabbing..

    WC tries to avoid grabbing because once you've grabbed something, that hand/arm can't be used for anything else and it has no purpose in a trapping/striking style. Sure a quick grab to pull your opponent off balance is ok but you'd release straight away so your hand is free.

    WC does not have any ground fighting whatsoever and that is something which could without a doubt benefit any WC person. It comes down to whether you feel it that important and whether spending endless hours rolling around on the mats is something you want to do 2-3 times a week for years(in a street self defence scenario, going to the ground would be the one thing I would avoid at all costs and I have to desire to learn it. Maybe if I was 15 years younger..)
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I will respond to your post, but I really should not until you learn how to use the forum reply option properly - are you doing it to be irritating or just to put people off replying?
  16. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    ?? forum reply option?? What did he do that was so terrible except call you up on a few things? Remember, watch the dogma;)
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is true - he respected them individually, but then he was always about pragmatism.

    The backyard tapes ARE his own training - they are easy to find

    Or perhaps because he didn't have access to his teachers anymore, was faced with bigger opponents, and had to adapt what he knew to the situation.[/QUOTE]

    He adapted what he had because he found it lacking - this is from his own words, so you are half-right

    They show a progressive development -- and I would be interested in seeing how you can justify concepts as being dogmatic...or more accurately your experiences from within JKD

    I read his OWN notes and work - which is probably a lot more than you have, but doesn;t seem to stop you offering a (wrong) interpretation.

    Or you could look at his notes like I have - they are freely available

    the one who has been teaching it for the longest probably - it is not the amount earned that is the issue, more the fact that the only reason many make their money is by association rather than by their own skills and merit.

    It means out of every single student he was the one who spent the most time over the longest period right up until the very end. He also holds the highest rank handed out by Sijo Lee.

    He was also the individual who carried on the training of the others in JKD so how you can claim otherwise is just...well dumb actually

    Why is this concept hard for you to grasp? It is well documented and verified by the person closest to Lee in a letter written just after his death 0 thus free of the politics that beset the art later on

    Fact - do your research

    Yup! :)

    This makes no sense at all. English please
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    See that quote thing I just did? He doesn't...ever

  19. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Yes but he did separate via the use of bold and normal text so it was easy to follow. Different technique, same result. wakatte imasu ka?
  20. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics


    Actually, on occasion I do. I find when people quote "properly," as you put it, it is harder and takes more time to respond to their posts because you have to then copy and paste everything that was in the original because it disappears.

    Nope, it is easier, and for me, after learning and trying out many ways and experimenting on this form, I find it works best for me.:cool:

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