Jeet Kune Do or decent alternative martial art in Chelsea are of London?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by benuds, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    sorry but sounds to secret squirrel for my liking and more like a sales ploy of 'I only teach the good stuff to special students blah blah'. If you cant trust someone you should not be teaching them in the first place and JKD is about simplicity and if someone can't get simple they need to lock themselves in at home as they are a danger to themselves.

    Nope I don't buy it. Its beginning to sound like a cult thing to me too and unfortunetly it tars others with the same stuff.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  2. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    do you have to drink the coolaid before you learn teh d3adly techniquez?
  3. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    I'm not in the least surprised that you people think that way because I am familiar now with your prejudices about subjects like this when you have no background knowledge of the issues in hand. Like I said before... people can betray you by learning from you and then backstab you or talk trash behind your back. There have been dissagrements over matters with people he trusted that I care not to discuss. He wants people to be of at least credible standard before they go off teaching or demonstrating the aspects of the art claiming it for themselves or on his behalf. Its about integrity and quality. All this labeling of it being cult-sifu nonesence is so backwards. So many people have criticised his thinking before and then gone and handed the same stuff over to their students on the internet or thier Mc dojos. That's why he now has Group leaders with more skill than other JKD groups have certified instructors. He needs to see and with unanimous agreement determine that some one can actually produce results from the people they train before making them an instructor. Incidently this is no different than the selection process bruce encouraged after closing down his China Town Schools and agreeing to just a few teaching JKD in their small groups.
  4. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    "If knowledge is power why give it away indiscriminately!"
    That's why I told Master Betty to forget it.
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    You said if he does not trust someone he teaches them something else. If he does not trust someone he should not teach them fullm stop. And if someone he did trust backstabs him well those are the breaks in teaching you just accept it and stop teaching them.

    But to claim that you only teach people you trust 'the real stuff? Sounds more like a cult specially when it is backed up by the claim that you do the real JKD and the others don't.

    Secret Squirrel stuff and the only taught in a back yard / basement / secret location etc is for those who want to bleed more money out of gullible people.
  6. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Knowledge is something to be shared and is only used as a power thing by control freaks.

    As martial arts instructors we should be guides not dictators. Only dictators think knowledge is power. Guides give knowledge willingly to help others improve themselves.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  7. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    What??? No I didn't ??read my post again please!!!

    By that time they would have moved on and he would have stopped teaching them anyway!

    It may sound like it the way you put it but AGAIN that's not the case.... quite the opposite and its never what I said.

    His whole class is in a big basement! and not for Gullible people! That's how JKD was being taught at one stage in case you were not aware. And if the founder was alive many believe that's how he would have it.
  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Is that so. And you know that for certain do you? Did he come to someone in a dream and say that then?

  9. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    That's the opinion of first generation students like Bob Bremer, Ted Wong and highly regarded second generation students like Tim Tackett and people who knew him well. I know that for a fact beause I have spoken with them.

    Whether I agree with it or not its a respectable opinion and certainly not nonesense as you put it. These guys knew him and trained with him. you & I never met him.

    I've seen the letter of James lee to Gary Dill even back in Oakland days telling him not to teach JKD too openly.
    Bruce hated big classes and after closing down his LA schools because of receeding quality, only allowed inosanto to teach jkd to a select few in his backyard. Inosanto himself describes this and the strict selection process up until the early 80s well in his books. And this is why he doesn't teach JKD publically.

    We may not even be having this conversation if he where alive. Either way Tommys focus is quality and getting results and I can only respect him for being protective of poor quality instruction of his material as I would respect you of being wary of fake teachers of Rapid Arnis etc. Especilly those who might have the nerve to tell you how to walk the walk and talk the talk whilst trash talking you in their own circles.

  10. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Selection process?

    Way I see it there's too polar opposites in reasoning behind teaching people to "defend themselves". Either you're doing it for the money or you're doing it to help out your fellow man.

    Now, assuming you're doing it to help out your fellow man, we'd still allow for the fact that you have to make a living from it and hence still have to make money. You'd teach anyone and everyone who came your way knowing that the one person you didn't teach because they weren't a "true" JKD student might need that knowledge some day and you, the teacher, have failed to provide him with knowledge that might potentially save a life. After all, there's no such thing as a bad student, only bad teachers. You also wouldn't spit the dummy out the pram if somebody said something bad about the art or disagreed with you. You certainly wouldn't refuse to teach them.

    Since this does NOT appear to be the way tommy does it we can only assume he does it purely for the money. Not a bad thing in and of itself but to claim some sort of moral superiority because you're "not teaching a sport but teaching people how to defend themselves" all the while being a hypocrite kind of is.

    He has a system whereby he releases what, as he claims, could potentially be life saving knowledge only to people who've proven themselves "loyal". What the hell does loyalty have to do with anything? It's a service industry, the people pay money, they deserve to get what they pay for. If I found out 6 months down the line that what I'd really being paying for since I started was some sort of glorified ego trip for the teacher I'd torch his bloody car. And I don't doubt it's pretty damn expensive. Oh but wait, he doesn't put the price of lessons up on his website, imagine that. What he does put up is various offers for "training camps" and online learn-it-yourself programs. Lol come on! So if somebody actually wants to learn what they're paying good money to learn, they have to spend months convincing the guy that they won't tell the world his "teh d3adly" secrets?

    Come on! He's basically ripping off the scientologists with their "levels" and having to pay sums of money in order to advance a level and find out more secrets of the universe!

    If you're doing it for the money, you
  11. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    Dude Your either twisting my words intentionally or a realy as stupid as you sound! The selection process I referred to was of Dan Inosantos to show pat how long the JKD tradition of small classes for not compramising quality for quantity has been going on. Get the Book he wrote art and philosophy of bruce lee and he clearly indicates that beginners he took on were told specifically that what they would learn is not JKD but a blend of Panantukan, wing chun, A bit of Kenpo and Kali. This is why people confuse that blend as JKD itself and this is why he coined the term Concepts to separate it from bruces original teachings!

    As For Tommy read the posts I wrote! I said he spends time to assess individuals abilities INORDER to decide what skill set they are best fitted to learn for getting the most appropriate results. He takes money from people he owes to them to teach them how to fight! So he is not going to kid some one into thinking they can do it with bruces more difficult stuff that takes a lot of dedication and natural ability to master. The Non Classical Kungfu stuff modified extrememly well by the like of Jesse glover is simple in approach just like Bruces later stuff but effective for the average person to assimilate! SO QUITE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
  12. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    I only quoted Bruce himself There! I guess you think Bruce Lee was a dictator then. Yes Knowledge should be shared by those who are willing to receive it and use it gracefully. I Clearly cannot see Master Betty in that category...that's what I was trying to say.
  13. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    What is astonishing is that your Main man Bob Breen who you are quick to stick up for has an academy which does exactly what you are complaining about above. You think I don't know poeple who have trained there? You have to be part of an inner circle to be taught certain things...then an elite part of that circle to even train with Bob himself. The quality of his teachers down the chain is low..... They shout at you sometimes if you don't salute upon class entrance (hows that for sifu cult). I know one who left and never went back when he got a taste of other JKD schools. Not knocking Bob I have respect for him but there seems to be a double standard here in your judgement!

    Just because I said Tommy class was in a basement (Which is just the level of the building just like Tacky Kimuras was when he taught bruces stuff in seattle). You seem to want to turn that into meaning something else

    Would it be better if he moved his class to the top of the Chip shop next door? how about the pub to the other side! Chhhhheeeeezze! At least his students get to train with him ! Sifu cult or not It is what I found to bellieve in for my needs...that's what counts

    all the best
  14. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    well if that's the case then things have certainly changed since I stopped training there in 1993. Like I said I base my opinions on my own personal experiences.

    Best regards


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