JKD Should be practiced after having established a strong foundation..? Discuss

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Jabby Mcgee, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    OK, lets see is world taekwondo federation style TKD Jeet kune do too?
     
  2. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    the most effective form of self defense is pull out and gun and shoot. if that is the approach to fighting that i take is THAT JKD to you? your view on JKD to me seems like a slippery slope. but thats MY VIEW. this is how silly the concepts idea BY ITSELF sounds to me. if i study kendo and mix it with capeoria( i cant spell) is THAT JKD TO YOU?hahaha thats how crazy JKD concepts BY ITSELF sounds to me. we'll just have to agree to disagree here. but i do agree with you in that effectiveness is NOT AN ISSUE. effectiveness is everything for me here.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh yes they do - you are in complete denial to say otherwise. I see Jerry Poteet doing moves against grappling that would not work on a corpse - all in the name of saying "Look, JKD can beat a grappler!" - bollocks

    If what Bruce does is still the best for you then use it; if it is not then discard it. I have no intention of doing something just because Sijo did it.

    Oh and the gun is not the most effective at all. There is a time where it will beat a knife and a time when the knife will beat the gun.

    Sijo was also an avid shooter - or did you not know that?

    As another aside how many OJKD guys do you see grappling? And don't feed me the line that "it is not in JKD" because there are 5 pages dedicated to it in the Tao which you love so much. Do you honestly think that they are just pulled out of the air in isolation or is it more likely that Bruce dies before he could explore that area fully?

    Common sense people!

    And what style did Bruce use in Enter the Dragon with sticks? A film admittedly, but you CANNOT deny the exposure. In fact he was a capable "largo mano" fighter. Again, and undeniable fact

    Bruce was going to go along the lines of UFC/MMA sparring - source Larry Hartsell.

    The fact is Your JKD is not my JKD and vice versa - end of discussion.
     
  4. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    JKD concepts guys paint JKD with such a broadstroke that JKD can be ANYTHING!! no matter how unrealistic or insane. thats how i view concepts. if my view on combat is get the enemy to the ground and choke him out or cause a break then I'm adhering to the BJJ fighting philsophy, BUT if my art is SAMBO then I'm not "doing" BJJ.hahahah I'm done i just find martial arts fascinating and i know that being right or wrong ends up being irrelavant for me in the big picture. but the discussion is priceless.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    BJJ and Sambo are ARTS - grappling is the RANGE

    THAT is the JKD concept - the search for the common thread.

    Eggs, flour, water and sugar on their own in a bowl are a mess - when you mix and bake them correctly you have a cake. How you decorate that cake is up to you, but it is still a cake.

    Seems that some people get too caught up in the frosting and cream and forget the sponge
     
  6. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Hannibal, when I trained with Lee Banda (JKD) he told me that figures from the American Police Force were that insdie of 21 feet with the gun on safety and holstered the knife fighter would win.

    Bruce once bought a six shooter from Sammy Davis Junior if I recall correctly.
     
  7. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

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    so m16 riflle training that i did in the navy as a SEABEE is JKD? sorry man but i cant agree with that. 9 pages of NOTES in the TAO with bad drawingson grappling is very little reason to consider grappling as OJKD. there is also SAVATE in the TAO too, and zen buddhism. i've seen some of the "crappling" that poteet lienage its crap BJJ guys would laugh. JKD is a striking art. poteet is a master but should leave grappling alone. i disagree with the wing chun/ grappling that poteet lineage expouses. just my opinion. i believe that BL had discarded Wing Chun almost completly after 1970. I've studied the "chun" too. if i want grappling i go and train at a JUDO, BJJ or sambo school and nowhere else. this anti-grappling "stuff" taught in striking arts can be dangerous for the striker. grappling requires complete focus to understand and use. BJJ guys spend MANY HOURS rolling and years to reach their BB level.

    GUN WILL BEAT A KNIFE MAN! at least in a combat zone with training. this i do know firsthand.
     
  8. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

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    so a TRAINED knife fighter 20 feet away with knife holstered could run up and stab and kill a TRAINED gun expert with his gun holstered and gun on safe? i love knives i would agree. my experience with firearms is different, military only. the m9 or m16/m14 is on safe. but in a combat zone there is a round chambered and you could not travel 20 feet and stab a TRAINED marine before he shot you first. i served with marines as a Seabee. A BULLET TRUMPS ALL IN SELE DEFENSE. or at least it SHOULD. but its not as if i walk around with a concealed firearm. for me its a matter defending my home not drawing dawn with a knife fighter on pavement.
     
  9. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You are making a lot of assumptions here.

    I was given a statistic and would gladly wait until a law enforcement officer (which Hannibal is) told me whether it was correct or not.

    What has being a trained knife fighter got to do with it. The trained knife fighter has a respect for the weapon. It is the untrained idiot that would worry me.

    I may have written incorrectly, but it was the gun that was holstered not the knife.
     
  10. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

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    cops have it tough. holstered. on safe. no round chambered. military is different. I'm not a cop but with a holsered gun. on safe no round chambered you would get sliced up by a commited knife fighter within 21 feet. my assumptions are based what I've observed in an actual war zone. I once had my m16 locked and loaded on somebody VERY QUICKLY. but a rifle and a handgun are different. i carried a pistol(holstered) round chambered on safe and i could take out a knife fighter inside of 21 feet IMO. only becuase the magazine was inserted and round chambered. a cop couldn't though IMO. they outta change that procedure for cops. should chamber a round.
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    And therefore the gun is not always the winner in a self defense situation.

    It's like anything else, weapon or not. Does it work, yes. Does it work, no.
     
  12. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    . an enemy WILL do down from a bullet, may take 10 stabs to drop the same guy. gun is best form of personal self defense IMO. lets face it, its tough to defend againts multiple attackers or a home invasion with any martial art. i cant beat 5 guys with JKD. no chance, but with a gun i would have the best chance. i actually prefer knives personally and collect them. but with an M-16M-14 rifle in a military combat zone situation i wont lose to a knife. you're right though it depends on the sit. a gun may not always win.
     
  13. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    aww you're from the U.K. lot of brits in Iraq, well trained and laid back. you guys were focused in southern Iraq, i was is in Al-anbar province. met some brits in kuwait though.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You are ill-informed, clueless and downright asinine. I also suspect you are about 17

    Of course we have a round chambered. Simon is quite correct except on one part - the distance WAS 21 ft...it is now reckoned at 26

    This is by empirical study not some fanboy in a yellow catsuit talking crap on a forum.
     
  15. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    good you have a round chambered. I'm FAR from clueless there officer. i didn't know cops walked around with magazine inserted round chambered. at 26 feet you cant draw take weapon off of safe and fire? i dont buy that. ofcourse you could. oh and and take your insults elsewhere, i have a lot of training in regards to weapons. military go through extensive combat training JUST LIKE YOU.
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    YOU ARE ARGUING AGAINST AN EMPIRICAL STUDY!!!!

    Jog on
     
  17. Kuto

    Kuto Vacuumed Member

    Alright, I spent hours reading both this thread and the preceding one, you know which one I mean, and I really really wonder why you are discussing the same issue in many ways over and over again. I guess we all got your points, and I ask myself what else is there to come out of this argument?
    Are you not tired, my friends?
     
  18. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Sorry but are we not a discussion forum?

    Have you nothing to add other than acting like teacher?
     
  19. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    I would facepalm at what just happenned here, but I don't think that quite cuts it.................

    I know!!:
    IMAGE FAIL!!

    ....... that oughta do it...
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  20. mranderson

    mranderson Valued Member

    i am arguing against a guy named Hannibal on MAP who cites a mysterious empiracal study! whats YOUR source? other posters on this site may kiss your ass and take your word for it but I wont. you really going to compare canada in terms of crime rate to urban california?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no man YOU have no idea. your 92% of fights can be avoided with situational awareness is another ******** number. if i get into 100 streetfights 92 of them could be avoided with situational awareness alone? i think you pull these numbers out of thin air. your 10 minutes of warning before the fight is complete ********. sometimes you're lucky to get 30 seconds man.

    you're walking through a little strip mall at night with a friend you glance back and see 1 van and one car stop 20 feet away, 10 seconds later over 1 dozen guys are running at you ARMED and serious. 10 seconds man not minutes. no situational awarness prevents that. you just dont know. ANYTHING can happen and does. your 10 minute line is hilarious thanks for the laugh.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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