Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by YODA, Nov 14, 2002.
You can end up with a broken arm or 2 broken arms.
A roundhouse kick to the thigh is a circular attack. If you blast back (backward blast), that would get you out of range.
of course the best block is no block. So evasion comes first. Besides, your block is anticipated, and there is sure going to be a follow up. Even if you blocked it, the follow-up may catch you dead on.
The limbs are way too fast. You best bet is to watch the trunk, as MT uses the trunk to generate the power. The trunk will telegraph the attack. But chances of your counter hitting his trunk first is close to NIL.
I would still say that blasting out of range is your best bet. Short of that, shin up to block, follow by a push kick to nuetralize follow up.
Has anyone mentioned destructions? There has been so many replies to this thread I may have missed it. I will stay toe to toe and check destroy kicks. but if he's firing hellfire missles than I'm gonna have to avoid being kicked. If it's 1 on1 wich rarley happens on the steets than I'll take him to the ground. If not then I'm gonna check it as fast as I can and fire one back. People talk about thigh kicks wich is ok for sport but on the steets I'm aiming for knees. I do believe in Karma so yes I would feel bad but it's him or me. Besides if I fight someone it's for good reason I'm not thugged out or whatever If I strike you you had it comin
Does anyone train to catch the kickers instep with a shield. Very effective against a low line MT round house as i have had this done and seen my foot swell. That's why my shin pads now protect the instep as well.
The other's ideas about moving out of range are valid only if you have the space. If your up against a wall or ropes it could not be an option. Moving out of range also eliminates any counters on your part. If they cant hit you chances are you can't hit them. You might as well run away.
Not on purpose - but it happens occasionally
No sh1t Sherlock!
That's always a good idea!
Whats the sheild?
The Leg Shield
The leg shield is where you lift your leg to "shield" against the kick - using your shin to block / absorb the incoming kick.
I've had a new perspective imparted to me on this after our "formal" introduction to sparring.
I look at it like this.
My opponent wants to hit me.
He starts out of range. To hit me with anything he must come into range. As he moves to get into range for anything I can just go into my attack/counter attack.
The MT low round rick is a close range kick from the back leg? To get into range he must step in, rebalance then bring the leg around. As he steps in I can either move back with him (out of range), stay where I am and get kicked or attack him first.
As he comes into my kicking range I will just attack with a kick. Probably a thrust kick for range and power.
Whoever controls the range with control the fight. If you can hit your opponent hit them. This applies to all situations, you can't be moving and attacking effectively together, you have to move into your attack.
This makes attacking a defensive person very hard, which I figured out after getting smacked in the head a few times.
Congrats on a great post Darzeka! You have discovered interception, and you've learned it the best way - it is now YOURS
It kinda of turns a fight between two people who know whats gonna happen into somthing like that match between Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock in one of the early UFC's - 30 mins of circling.
But will leave most people wondering why the hell they are doing on the floor hurting so much.
How do you attack someone who is intent on doing this to you??
Attack By Drawing
Draw the interception and counter it.
My low leg defences
Well there are the obvious!
Dont be there
Jump it (not my style though)
Kick into the hip or thigh.
Side kick - If you know its coming - this puts your lead leg (most likely the one they attack) out of the way and whilst he is on the one leg it forces him back and off balance - good move!
hook the leg and all that stuff - hard to do thought
Taijitsu teaches a good one by blocking the kick with a kick - this took a while to get to grips with, like the side kick I know.
Stepping into the kick as it has a rounded motion, if you are inside the ark of the kick it dramaticaly loses its power.
The Thai defence works well for me and hurts a bit but far less than it hurts the other person, also it hurts less than getting kicked with it if you do nothing.
I think the hardest part is avoiding this as its so quick and powerful you are better using stopping methods like my old Thai roots.
Step in and sideways... get close enough for the knee or upper leg of the kick to hit you instead of the instep and it will take all the power out of it. Sounds nubby, but it's worked for me at Muay Thai almost every time, they don't expect you to move into the attack. (of course, you have to do it very quickly)
-I've come into this topic late and truthfully only read a few pages of the replies since it seems most(w/ a few notable exceptions) seem to have any real experience w/ dealing with this type of attack thrown by a good fighter using intent. My first introduction to muay thai came from Benny Urquidez in 1980. Benny was the first American to fight and train w/ the top Thai fighters and win. He did an exibition bout with my instructor, Ernie Reyes(Sr.), who was a world lightweight champ in full contact TKD. The forst thing he did was light up KJN Ernie w/ leg kicks and follow it up w/ elbow strikes. KJN Ernie still jokes about it today how big his eyes got. Needless to say, we began networking with Benny and others to add this to our arsenal. We have been regularly working with Alex Gong and the Fairtex Camp instuctors to keep us sharp in our muay thai skills.-My point is that this kick is going to be thrown as part of a combination and with flow. Unless you are regularly training with and against it, you are not prepared for it. Our students start training w/ and countering against it as beginners and still it can be a challenge when it's thrown well. Low parrries or leg checks cutting in at a 45degree angle followed by a punch/kick combo to break the oponents momentum and gove it back to you is my favorite stategy. If they do fire this as a single strike(good luck on this happening from a good fighter), a stop hit or kick can work. As well as A cut angle step back as used in savate, or similar footwork from arnis(counter to strike #9, or the jenga(spelling?) from capoira. Another option if they are somewhat incopetent is a pop-up kick as a counter. All of these from other systems can work but are very difficult if the leg kick is thrown as part of a well-flowing combo. Espescially if they have already scored on you with another part of the combo.
I have on occasion used it as a tester kick or just for keeping distance.
It works best I find in the Jab, cross then low kick combo. Very powerful as the kick - if either of the punches are taken or blocked high it comes as a big shock to people to be belted that low and I like the damage it scores and also the fact that often it takes the persons balance away acting as a sweep.
Lastly if you take the fighters mobility out it slows him down and hampers his fighting.
Unless he is a grappler then at least his shoot should be slower.
*1. Evade backwards (not as simple as it seems)
*2. Leg Sheild (Lifting the leg to block using the TOP of the shin - needs to be done at the correct angle - if you lift your leg straight up you're going down! Also you need to be covered from the middle & high kicks at the same time)
3. Leg Shield with cut kick (Skipping kick into supporting leg off the leg shield)
4. Attacking leg shield (Actually attacking his shin)
*5. Direct Cut Kick (Requires LOTS of timing)
6. Teep (foot jab) interception at the upper knee
*7. Teep (foot jab) interception at hip or body (or groin!)
8. Teep (foot jab) interception to the supporting knee
9. Leg Shield & pick up (hooking your same side hand over the kick & lifting it - counter with knee or cut kick)
All these are fine and Dandy and represent the most Practical answers to this technique.
Re: 1) It gets alot easier to evade these kicks the harder you train, you develop a sense for it and you move away ever so slightly, so that the kick swishes by (and then pile back in)...literally inches, not huge backwards or sideways steps. Small tiny wee movement, just to take you out of range. Even better if you evade to the side a tad also.
5) Low Roundhouse Cut Kick for Kick is fine as long as you beat them to it, obviously. Be careful, as you could find yourself talking to the Floor (Well it worked when I bought the video...)
Regarding 6,7 and 8):
Important point is that although you can use the 'Stop the Army' Movement (Front Kick/ Block to the kickers leg) in one form or another, either digging the toes into the flesh of the thigh, the ball of the foot into the thigh, etc or the fllat of the Floot, as a check/ strike, your foot (toes) should be turned outward at about 45 degree angle (Ie your Foot is not pointing straight up), to avoid injury to the foot/ ankle and try to impact with the heel into the leg, this is the best tactic until you become more proficient and can peck with the toes or ball of the foot into the offending leg if you want to.
Aiming at the Kneeof the Kicking Leg is fine, but watch you don't damage the sole of the foot on his Knee. Better to impact with the Heel, if you can, but even then, be careful.
As well as these above, the more advanced ones are:
Jump over the kicking leg and either Knee to the chest or face.
This is one fluid motion and not hop skip jump then knee.
Takes lots of practice and is more of a classical technique. But a nice surprise for your adversary, watch the look of impending horror on their face as your knee looms large, flying across the horizon towards their Fizzog.
To defend against this Jumping Knee attack, strike/ push the chest or face with outstretched palm (s). There are more but that's the easiest natural movement and defence.
Jump over the Kicking leg and strike with Roundhouse to the Chest or face. Again much practice needed as you don't want to jump and get your legs taken completely out from under you.
Same as Jumping Knee regarding delivery.
9) Is a lovely move and works nicely. When their kick hits your shin and you have it angled correctly for the pick up, tilt the foot of the Blocking leg upwards so as to catch their leg descending into the trough of your instep, as you are hooking your hand over their leg.
Be very careful that they are not piling forward when they either realise that you have caught their leg, or are off balance and looking to land a couple of punches to try to get you to let go.
Remember that a good fighter or an instinctive one, will try to pull the leg back (A standard Thai tactic) so as to bend their Leg, to pull you closer to clinch or escape the catch.
Finally regarding the posting about the Shin break at a recent big fight. That was in the K-1, I can't remember who the fighters were, but just to say that the Blocking leg is much stronger than the one that's Kicking, regardless of Conditioning. Stands to reason, a sthe Blocking Leg is Bent at a Strong Angle, whereas the Kicking leg of your opponent is one piece of bone flying through the air...
What happened in the above K-1) instance, is that:
He firstly telegraphed his intent to kick (Doh!).
Then he didn't throw any hand strikes, so as to dummy the other guy and takes his attention away from the Kick that he really wanted to throw and finally (He shouldn't of telegraphed his intent at all but..):
He kicked upwards full shin, into the other guys Kao Bung Nai (Apols if Thai spelling wrong), what you probably call Cross Shield Block or some such. Anyway, he drove a full power straight leg Shin kick UPWARDS from the floor and Into the other Fighters Knee block at the Knee, hence his shin snapped like a twig.
Yoda don't forget kradode te (jumping roundkick) to the face against the low kick.
Good stuff SoKKlab - you obviously know your Muay Thai
Did you know that Ajarn Surachai Sirisute is in the UK next month for a weekend seminar? In Northampton?
Thank You Yoda and No I didn't know,
I'm a bit out of the Loop at present, because I am in the Martial Wilderness. I simply refuse to pay extortionate amounts of money to shine other peoples pads with my shins...
I am mainly training on my own or with some sweet like minded souls who let me duff them up now and then in exchange for me yabbering on about Chap ko grappling and Wianging all over the place (Bless 'em).
Do you have any details, times, dates etc of said seminar? I'd love to go if Money says yes.
Also, I am more leaning to Ling Lom now, but hell they are two heads on the same Donkey. More info Maestro please....
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