Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by InsaneSocrates, Aug 6, 2004.
Arghhhh! Low blow Richie! I can't help that I am old! Oh well, any opening is fair game I suppose!
I declare this to be a "No Old Age Jokes" zone. Post that sort of joke here, and you will incur the wrath of Miss Fangs 'n' Claws.
Back on topic, I have ice cream -- chocolate raspberry swirl in a chocolate-covered waffle cone -- anybody want some?
(Good thread hijack, by the way! )
Barney Rubble says "Hi"
Hi Richie! Who's Barney Rubble? ( )
I dont think he's comming back....
if this party goes on any longer it can turn into Mrs Os birth day party!
Great cake! I hope it's chocolate underneath that frosting!
I made it just for Mrs O ( she made so many cookies i think its only fair )
Hey hey! thats a pretty looking cake can i have some?
Very sorry, but the cake has been moved to this thread:
I don't want anyone to get crumbs in the bed.
LOLOL fair enough
Thank you very much! It is a lovely cake!:love:
Happy birthday mrs owt i wish you all the best
A more <ahem*clears throat*> "constructive" reply
Only found this website today, and was intrigued by this post! Sorry to have missed the majority of the action, but I just had to add my two penneth! Hope this is ok for a first post to be soooo looong!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to those of you who nod off (ZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz!).
A little background info from me first if you'd like? I am 29, from the UK, and like to think of myself as being very open minded to new ideas and methods that improve on what has gone before. I currently study Lau Gar Kung Fu, and have studied Wing Chun, and Aikido in the past. I am also a big fan of Bruce Lee's philosophy (if we are all honest, he is the reason most of us started Martial Arts in the first place).
Now, I think some of IS's point is valid, but expressed entirely inappropriately with a blatent lack of respect for anyone on the forum, and I noticed (with some amusement) that it is in the expression of your opinion that most people focused their argument, i.e. The delivery, not the content. It is this in turn that led to you being considered a 19 page joke instead of an interesting point that could have prompted some really interesting discusion, as I'm sure you intended it to be.
I also believe that being naive isn't the worst thing in the world. You can think of new ideas and techniques that may, firstly, never occur to people with a more rigid view on how to do things, or secondly, may have been closed off to you had you followed another path.
I have studied a few differing styles of martial arts, and found each to be as useful as the next. Aikido, is fantastic for using your opponents momentum and Chi against them (take one look at Stephen Segal!), Wing Chun is good as a more developed style for "hand strikes", and Lau Gar is quite a modern style of Chinese Kung Fu, very leg based and sometimes refered to as more of a Kickboxing style, it is based on Shaolin principals of five animal Kung Fu (Tiger, Crane, Eagles Claw, Snake and Dragon). Now, even though, like you, I am the kind of person that prefers to find my own way, rather than to be shown, I would never be so bold as to declare that I have developed my own style of Martial Arts, but would go so far as to say that I am able to use throws, locks, and grabs from Aikido, and integrate a punch, kick, or gowge from one of the Kung Fu styles, as well as defend an attack in many different ways. Or even, defend an attack with one style (say Aikido, which is mainly defensive), and then counter with a diffferent style (say Lau Gar, which is aggressive and also has more "internal" elements to it as well).
Now, on the point of following other people styles/ideas. Please bear with me as I need to give an analogy:
I am also an IT Manager. Not sure if you already know, but there are projects going on all over the world to develop better, free software. The idea is, that the softwares "Source code" (the backbone of the programming) is accessible or "open" for anyone to see and edit. The idea is that this "Open Source" software is freely available, and can be developed by a community. The principal being that one person can build on what the last person has done, thus adding to the global developement of the product, by the very users of that product, giving a more complete result that can be tailored to anyone's specific needs. Providing they can program! My point here being that whilst as a complete non-programmer, I could give some good advice on what features I think the program could do with, I can't actually do it!
My point is that whilst I could agree with the principal of your argument (I'm sure there are many people out there who study JKD and totally miss the "no-style" point of it), I have to side with the other people on the forum in that I don't feel, even after studying 3 martial arts, that I have the right to stand in front of the people on the forum and say half the crap you did, and you haven't even studied anything!
I believe that by learning what has been done before, you will save having to discover basic things for yourself (often with painful consequences - e.g. "Ouch! I should duck next time I do that!"), meaning that someone who studies a style will progress faster than yourself, having the time to tweak what they have learned from the people before them, later on (while you are still remembering to duck!).
We should seek to learn from the people around us so that we can all lift one-another higher through our joint learning. One person may choose to grow one way, another may choose to grow in a different direction, it doesn't mean they won't end up in the same place, doesn't mean they will either. Not that this is important in JKD, moreso, wherever they end up, they got there from their own interpretaion of what they have already learned. Another analogy could use a tree as an example. The trunk represents the core training that we (as opposed to you) are prepared to do, the branches represent students differing routes of progression on their own (AFTER learning the basics), in their own direction. Each branch and twig off here could be a direction tried, but abandoned. Other branches are going off in all other directions representing where different students could take the same principals through their own interpretations.
You may feel that by being blazed down by the forum that you are in some way echo'ing Bruce Lee's stuggle for acceptance, you aint! Bruce had the right to challenge the masses because he had the years of training and expertise to back it up. You get down and do some serious training and developement on your "martial art", and you may have some right to challenge what these people have worked hard at, for decades in many cases. Watching "Warriors Journey", "Dragon" the Bruce Lee story, and "Enter the Dragon", even reading The Tao of JKD doesn't give you the right!
Well, that's it! Again, I appologise for the length (I say that to all the girls ;D Hehehehe), but I just couldn't fit my opinion into any smaller a space! I hope this has gone some way to providing the intelligent retort you were hoping for. I close with the words of a great author, Chuck Palahniuk:
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!" (Fight Club - ironically enough!)
Please feel free to blaze me down if you disagree, afterall, that is what an opinion is all about!
PS - I too have been known to smoke the herb of the wacka wacka tribe and continue to battle my opinion against weekend alcho binger mates who insist they are better off drinking one of the most aggresive and harmful drugs you can have!
all i have to say is wow. this was a very entertaining thread, thanks everyone for the great show!!!!!
this guy has some very good points, but like people stated above, his delivery was horrible.
to IS- how can you discover your own way if don't learn from others? IE techniques that work, techniques that dont work and everything in between? as an "individual" you can only know so much about one single thing without the knowledge of others before you? by not learning what other people have learned/trained, you are limiting yourself, and therefore still stuck "in the box".
being a d--khead about people and their posts is not a way to strike up a witty and intelligent discussion about philosophies and theories you have yet to test yourself, when the majority of us are out there, testing, adapting, etc the techniques that work for us, not for bruce. because not every technique that bruce, yoda, or anyone on this forum practices will work for every individual, EXCEPT THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC physics behind the combat principles in every fight. that is, of course, up for people having different interpretations of.
get some training, find out what works for you, not ur instructor, and then come back and have an intelligent discussion with us before you call people out on JKD, and martial arts in general.
Sorry if someone's pointed this out already, but there can be such thing as a style which emphasises no style. So it's perfectly allowable to call it JKD. I mean, come on, be sensible, you have to call it SOMETHING.
Well - like any good party it has come to a close.
I'll be here for the next few hours clearing up the paper plates and trying to get the chocolate stains out of the carpet before InsaneSoctares' parents get back
It's been fun!
Separate names with a comma.