Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by martialartistsifu, Sep 6, 2019.
Not watched this yet,
Well, if I took you to the floor and rapidly punched your face 10 times in 5 seconds like he did to all those Japenese guys in Gis, you'd be pretty unconscious, right? That part isn't movie magic, it's common sense.
Punching someone in the face a lot is useful in a real fight. Where I think the chain punching videos lose my interest is in the fact that they claim this is how to win a fight. That's where I hit pause and say "no, good boxing wins fist fights". I might be naive or uneducated in the various forms of Wing Chun, and I don't mean to offense anyone, but I'm pretty confident about what happens in a fist fight.
The Alan Orr videos I just watched (thanks) are a good example of better boxing than the original Wing Chun chain punching video. So if I had to rank them, I'd definitely go with whatever Alan Orr does. That works, objectively it exemplifies real boxing. If he trains Wing Chun and turned it into what I saw, then he's got the right Wing Chun and all his detractors can bugger off.
Everyone here should watch this video. Thanks DP.
Donnie trained in WC mostly for the Ip Man films. Oddly enough being a Bruce Lee mega fan (he's played Chen Zhen more than a few times) he's actually wushu based thanks to his mum and dad (he's supposedly Purple BJJ but that's sketchy).
So he understands theartics very well, much like Jackie. And the WC rapid windmill punch is key-signature move of WC itself hence the constant use of it in the choreography. "Hammer home the point of what his character is using". Magic rule of film making - repeat what you can to make the audience understand.
You have to remember though after the first punch most people would cover their face and move away. There's a reason we don't do it in actual fights.
Really when did you ever seen that actually work in any fight, someone stand over an opponent without controlling their movement and punch them repeatedly in the head.
Anything can look good if your opponent is compliant, but when did you last are that actually done in any fight?
If you have a fence to back them into it might work, especially if all they do is cover up and you mix in hooks an supper cuts, but out in the open its a invitation for them to either back off or level change and put you on your backsside
I mean, I can do it. I can do it because I have my timing and distance down. I can chain punch people both standing and on the ground. It's also worth noting I can't do it to anyone on my level or above. It doesn't mean it's worth doing or effective. I can land 360 spinning kicks in practice but doesn't mean that they're worth drilling like mad or spending more than the appropriate amount of time on.
There's a big difference between something that's fun to do in sparring and something that you trust when your bum is on the line.
A couple of obligatory clips...
First, I can't help thinking that there would have been many different techniques that could have worked better in these examples:
And probably the biggest proponent of the JKD straight blast. Watch from 34 minutes in to see him explain how to use chain punches against a variety of different styles of attack:
I said "never seen that in a real fight", that being chain punching. You appear to be agreeing with me? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic in agreement, or disagreeing. Could you re read my post and clarify?
What I did say was it's common sense that the only way it might work was if the other guy, like the Karate dudes in that one scene, are already out for the count.
And am I the only one who finds it really funny that Ip Man is supposed to be a hero, but has no problem pummeling the heads of already KO'd people? Are the extra 10 head strikes really necessary? I don't get "Noble gentleman warrior" watching some of those clips, more like "vicious thug".
He'd be DQ'd for doing that sort of thing in MMA.
So you were being sarcastic when you said
I actually disagree because I've yet to see anyone put someone down like that and hit them repeatedly unless they weren't cooperating.
But to clarify
1) I've yet to see anyone make wing chun chain punching work i agree with you
2) it doesn't matter if it looks like it might work when what we are showing is a film because it's make believe so I disagree posting that clip shows anything
I see. By "took you to the floor" I meant "knocked you cold on your butt", I think you thought I meant grappling on the ground. Are we on the same page now? I was implying a defenseless opponent, but I used callous language. Sorry I sometimes forget a lot of colloquialisms don't translate online.
What I think the video shows is the IDEA\L of chain punching. Which explains why it is so prevalent in film. The idea always works in your mind and your eyes follow along.
It's like the uncanny valley of punches, if you get my meaning. Close, but unsettlingly off to the trained eye. To untrained eyes? Magic.
Dan Hardy stating his WC trapping helped the ground n pound.
Dan Hardy on Instagram: “This fight was at 160lbs, on @cagewarriors #EnterTheRoughHouse, against a very tough and talented @alexizidro I felt on point for this…”
If an opponent's defenceless anything will work
they can move at all you won't land those punches on them unless you have control of their body first which he doesn't do.
Two places trapping can work, on the ground where you can pin your opponent and they can't move out of that range (of course Greco hand fighting works just as well if not better in this situation) and maybe with weapons were your opponent stays close .
It doesn't work so well standing if your opponent doesn't want to stay in that range or has the idea of clinching and throwing you for standing so close and so up right
A very very long time ago I trained in a few classes with Kevin Webb when he was a purple belt in BJJ and an ex JKD guy, his cross collar choke game (Mount and guard) was really impressive to me, and after I asked him, he said it was from all the trapping training in JKD/WC, he said it was one of the few things that carried over.
I remember chatting to a bjj blackbelt and dog brother who trained with inosanto directly for a number of years, his take was it worked great in the guard and knife against knife standing it also had some use.
I remember training with bon breen earlier this year and he was impressed I could make his knife stuff work so well so quickly it was because it was based on the wing chun I'd done, and the trapping redirecting etc made sense when a knife came at you.
But in all honestly it was knife play, not the sort of committed stab attack you will probably see if you ever face a knife.
It doesn't even need to be a trained response. Any untrained burly bloke will go for a clinch/tackle if he's getting punched in the face.
Exactly and that even follows along with the ideal shown on film. Everyone is practically defenseless against Ip Man. Until he hits the big bad (there's always one) he has to chew through gangs of what are essentially redshirts, to borrow the Star Trek trope.
The chain punch gives the perception that he's a greased lightning punching machine, and the bodies just hit the floor. It's very John Wick, in a way. And even though the fight choreography in those movies was top notch, let's face it a lot was nonsense.. a lot of the grappling shown me might be technically possible...but come on. Some of those takedowns could just not happen in the real world.
But, because it all looks so smooth and fast paced, the illusion sells just like it does for Ip Man. You believe he's unstoppable force.
I thought of the Rocky films...another series where you will see real boxing moves, but in a totally unrealistic presentation. In the films Rocky has minor brain damage from the thousands of punches he's taken. Any boxing coach will tell you he'd probably not have survived Rocky 1 if it were a true movie.
But, people love to hear and feel each sting and want to see faces eating strikes.. It wasn't until Rocky IV that someone decided "you know what? Let's get a little more medically realistic at least for the Apollo/Drago bout".
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