So before I consider leaving judo for good, I want some thoughts from this community

Discussion in 'Judo' started by IronMaiden1991, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    Ok so I have practiced Judo for the best part of 5 years, got up to 3rd kyu. Im not interested in competing, which puts me a little at odds with my club, which is very competition oriented and they train rather hard. Ive previously fractured my forearm just under the elbow training from being exhausted and landing badly after a throw. It's healed well, but the injury thing is relevant to what I want to say going forward.

    I'm aware Judo can be a demanding sport and martial art, which can be quite harsh on the body, but I am wondering if there is a training methodology problem at my club. This is not meant in disrespect, but I have noticed compared to other clubs I have visited on seminars or other grappling systems that the Judo club I am at has a significantly higher injury rate among athletes. I am 27, nearly 28, one of my fellow training partners is only slightly older than me, trained for the same length of time, and is looking to retire after he fights for his black belt due to a shopping list of injuries including broken limbs and a collar bone requiring surgical reattachment with possible nerve damage to the shoulder.

    That's one athlete, there are others with broken bones, one whose had his shoulder come out at the socket. I have the rest of my life to live, and if I want to do Judo I need to take care of myself. I am not sure how normal it is or if it is an issue with training intensity and methods.

    Since I am more looking to train in a recreational manner, as I have previously slipped a disk when I was younger (recovered, but still airing towards caution) I am wondering if i should check another club out and see how they train regularly.

    I guess my question boils down to if this is just the way the art is or if it's more an environment thing?
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  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm not particularly well qualified to answer, but it does sound like a place with a problem to me. Of the few judoka I've met, they seemed to have a higher injury rate than I was used to, but not to that extent. It was mostly hand injuries they were all suffering from with all the gripping and twisting. If you have a class with a decent number of competitors in a grappling art, I do expect a few of them to have had breaks and dislocations but, depending on the size of the club, that does sound disproportionately severe.

    How much emphasis is placed on teaching new people how to break fall?

    Also, of the injuries in the class were most of them sustained in class, or is it people who compete a lot getting injured at competitions, or over training and getting hurt at the school, rather than an issue with training or intensity in the classes themselves?

    Although overall, if you're not happy and you're worried about it, then I'd say just go check out another local club and see if you feel more comfortable there. If you do then it doesn't really matter whether your current club is normal or not, sometimes people just fit better at different places and if you have doubts then there's nothing wrong with listening to them, especially when it comes to injuries.
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  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Judo massively varies in intensity, but as a whole is quite an injury prone art, usually everyone has chronic hand injuries, and a good third have ruined knees.

    Its one of the reasons I stopped training it too.

    Check out a BJC club if you want to see how a less competition orientated associationbruns things.

    Also as your own K1 coach also does BJJ, maybe check out those classes too, generally BJJ is less demanding to train recreationally then judo is.
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  4. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    If memory serves, breakfalling is taught early.

    A good number of those injuries were in class, usually towards the end of the night. The most injured athletes tended to be the ones training most nights. That said, I still feel I should be looking at other clubs.

    It's not just compared to Judo. My main club for karate and mma also has a BJJ class that I have been to previously, I have yet to see severe injuries of this nature, also the same in catch wrestling at the seminars I go to. Both have similar sized clubs to the Judo but dont appear to have injuries of this nature. I'm wondering if its just the high focus on randori?
  5. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    Yeah I think BJJ might be a better fit overall. If I want to further grappling theres always seminars in other styles nearby.
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  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Judo tends to be quite explosive, and so if something goes wrong, theirs less time to correct yourself.

    BJJ tends to be quite safe, and at a good wrestling class, it should be reasonably the same.
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  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    For me as a fighter (lol) the risk/reward was never enough to take judo seriously. Luckily there's a recreational class I go to occasionally that is very lax and also some Olympians teach a block of judo at out club every now and again but they're very gentle with it. Proper competitive judo is just begging for injury.

    Other arts with similar focus such as Sambo and wrestling arrested just as intense but they are less injury prone because of pacing and style.
  8. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    See a while ago I was at a sambo seminar in Liverpool and that just butters my eggroll. Leg locks are wonderful things. If I lived nearer, Id have gone for that.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Most BJJ gyms do a lot of leg locks nowadays, it's the IN thing at the moment.
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    For me personally I love the aesthetic of it. The throws often involve kuzushi but without the restrictions in Judo which creates a sort of raggedy form of judo. It just appeals to me.
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  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I wonder how the injury rate is now, I know a few guys from my gym have got i jured lately from everyone diving for ankles
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  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I've heard of a few minor injuries, mostly from white on white leglocks but it's generally from one person stepping outside of the rules, or not knowing the rules,

    We used to say stick to IBJJF until blue belt, (so people bother to learn them) then after blue with active consent step outside then, but don't play rough, which is a bit too nuonced really.
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    My clubs in kinda "learn em dont use em yet" kinda thing. Had a long talk with coach about his feelings and it was like...Hey I can heel hook/wristlock you from there, do the movement but not the crank (as it were) then carry on.
    Basically, don't be an idiot about it.

    I was rolling with a blue belt and I went for a knee bar and I didnt actually know rules wise, it's not allowed. (i found out like a week later :)) but just carried on rolling. I didn't get the tap.

    Although, I did feel really guilty when I was working an RNC on someone and I heard a team mate shout "Alright, Khabib, calm down (lol)" and it transpired that I had the guy in more of a crank than a choke.

    I laughed, they laughed, the guy woke up. Is all good.
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  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The issue is you can just hold the position with a heel hook they panic and role the wrong way and it pops even if you do nothing.

    I've competed with heel hooks allowed always trained with leg locks but the modern no gi attitude In some.clubs of let's show everyone how to really clamp the leg even if they have no control or their partner doesn't understand what's going on scares me a little.
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  15. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    Here's a question for you then?

    Since Im wanting something that's not going to brutalize me as much, but still keep at least practicing some degree of takedowns and throws, what do you think about the jitsu foundation? There's a club up the road from me and their syllabus is pretty much judo without the competition focus, from what I can see they do some amount of randori every now and then, so it might be a lower impact alternative that keeps me at least working the throws to some degree.
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Hit and miss, mostly miss. It might be fun but it rates low on the "effective" for me personally. It also depends on your priorities. I'm trying to take down guys who can actually sprawl on me and do damage. If your own thing is just taking down idiots trying to have a go then it might be enough.

    Honestly your best bet is probably BJJ with the occasional wrestling class. BJJ is realities injury free when it comes to absolute serious injuries. I've been training at a mildly competitive rate for 8 years and never broken a bone. Injured a few muscles and ligaments but the longest due to injury is about 6 weeks. Not bad all things considered.
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  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Whilst that question wasn't too me....

    They're terrible, like PIP says, BJJ and the occasional wrestling/MMA class if the BJJ class doesn't cover takedowns (some do, some don't) will cover this far better.
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I had a white belt explosively try to heel hook me In the gi the other week, so I slipped the heel, and ended up knee barring him, and then HE complained that I was a little rough.

    I like leg locks, I like rolling with people I know with leg locks, I do not enjoy rolling with random strangers with leg locks, there's too much chance of injury.
    axelb likes this.
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Not much to add but I tried judo a couple of years back (in my mid 40's), at a decent club, but just came to the conclusion it wasnt so much 'if' I got injured but 'when'. So I stopped.
    Fully resisting throws and takedowns from standing is, I think, the single most hazardous aspect of martial arts training and that's what judo focuses on. Two bodies moving and falling together is just inherently dangerous.
    It always felt most dangerous when going against mid belts. People with the skill to get the throw but not the experience to fully control it or create a nice landing.
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  20. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    So its looking like my training is now

    Monday: Goju Ryu and BJJ

    Thursday: Goju Ryu and BJJ

    Saturday: Catch Wrestling or other seminars.

    seems pretty focused :)
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