The little man in (real) action

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Gray, Oct 3, 2005.

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  1. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    Thanks Pat, that does clear up alot. I do want to take my time polishing the style and earn the respect of fellow martial artists. When I broke the ranks down for grading I went to black sash and then started to work my way up the levels of black sash. I ended up getting to third degree and had pretty near exhaused all of my knowledge into it at that point.

    I realize that it is a life-long journey and didn't mean to disrespect the arts in any way. I guess I'm nervous that someone will see a McDojo ad with a 6th dan instructor and automatically assume that they are better off going to his studio. My area is full of McDojo's that are really popular with the younger school-aged kids and parents love the babysitting service.

    I honestly did look into rankings at first and it said that a grandmaster had to be either a founder or inheritor of a style. It had no further detail and I didn't even think about the age issue, only ability level.

    I went ahead and changed my signature to 3rd degree because my style is only graded to that point at the moment.
  2. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    It is not the rank that people respect, it is the person, and if you are good at what you do, the general public will see that, the McDojo's hand out titles like handing out candy and they will eventually fall on their faces. There is nothing wrong with telling people you are the Chief Instructor of your own systems, but giving yourself ranks so high well, your should know this saying. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but.......

    Call yourself Cheif Instructor and that would be fine. Grand Master though, well it makes people look at you in a different way, especially when your not that old. I don't ever want to be called Grand Master because that means I am about ready to pop my clogs and too old to care.

    Being a Chief Instructor of your own system does mean you can have any rank you want, but be realistic and don't over egg the cake if you know what I mean.

    Their are many pit falls when you set out on your own and you have to make sure you can curcumnavegate them, sometimes you fall in and sometimes you don't but each time you learn something new. As long as you honest to yourself and your students you will do what no McDojo can ever do. Survive the test of time.

    For that you have my respect, at least you have the courage to change things when people see that something is not what it should be. You would be surprised just how many people would not do this. Well done mate.

    Good luck and best regards

    Last edited: May 23, 2006
  3. Nevada_MO_Guy

    Nevada_MO_Guy Missouri_Karate_Guy

    Yep. :D
  4. DRMA

    DRMA Valued Member

    Just a couple of points the reason they say 4 years in tournaments is because not all clubs have belts for starters. There are no belts traditionally in CMA. Also not all martial arts have black belt at an equivalent level. Some have a yellow belt instead of a black belt.

    Another thing you talk about master as though it is a different word to sifu. Sifu is just master in cantonese. In most CMA as far as I'm aware master means you know the complete system inside out and perhaps a bit more. There is no minimum time it is just given the size of many of the systems alot of time maybe required but someone who trains for ten years 5-6 days a week several hours a day is going to know alot more than someone who trains a couple days a week for 20 or 30 years all else being equal.
  5. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    I'm very ignoranat about CMA's, but I thought Sifu was teacher and Sigung was master? If not what is the difference?
  6. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    The guy that heads my system, an offshoot of Shaolin kempo, took the title "Founder". He also found a 10th degree black belt, Hanshi Lou Angel, to set out goals for his promotions to higher ranks and further development of our system. I think your idea of ranking yourself at the highest possible (defiend) rank in your system is a good one. Although I might have gone +1 on that if it were me LOL

    so, 3 days until the big night :D nervous yet?
  7. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I was always under the impression that Sifu Was teacher and Sugung was Master and no offence 10 years in any Martial Arts no matter how many days of the week you train does not make you a Master in any Martial Arts System, I nave trained for over 30 years and I train everyday. does that ake me a Grand Master???? to some maybe, to others, No. So if Sifu means Master, what Does Sigung mean???? and what term do you use for teacher???? Enlighten me because I am not sure of Cantonese terminologies.

    Best regards

    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  8. DRMA

    DRMA Valued Member

    Now I am confused as well. I think we need a native speaker to help us out. I thought sifu,master and head teacher are all pretty much the same thing in CMA. I thought Sigung was grandmaster. The thing is a sihing can be a teacher as well but that clearly means senior. Anyway maybe a native could clear this up. I don't see the big deal anyway they are just titles

    Anyway I certainly don't consider myself a master (not remotely close) and my sifu (master or teacher?) has around 40 years experience so I have no reason to be offended. Anyway surely if you know a style inside out then you are a master of the style. Now maybe with many systems this may take most people a very long time but to set a number of years too it doesn't seem sensible. Different people improve at different rates. If you train full time 8hours a day say 6 days a week (are talented) for ten years you could probably complete and perfect to a degree the majority of styles. Surely then you are a master of that style. At the same time some people may spend 40 years and still be a beginner in that style.

    Anyway what do you consider qualifies you to be a master? Is it knowledge of the system or time spent doing it. They are correlated yet at the same time different things.
  9. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    The term Grandmaster is a Western one.

    師父/Sifu actually means "Master-Father". The first character, 師 means master, instructor, or model. The second character, 父, means father.

    師公 means "Master-Grandfather" or "Honored Master".

    Hence, my criticism that one should not call themselves Grandmaster until they have had the appropriate experiences.
  10. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    This thread has inspired me.
  11. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    BUt Sifu in the west is also an accepted term for Instructor, the problem is in the interpretation of the term. Maybe the CMA world should have another word for just instructor, but at the moment they use Sifu so yes it can be very confusing. And Instructor would be looked upon as a Father in Canonese terms as this word can be used very loosly, and it can also mean Master, hence the west tend more often than not use the term Sifu for instructor and Sigung for Master.

    A Sifu (Instructor) can be 27, but a Sigung (Master or Grand Master if you like) on the other hand, well I have stated my opinion.

    Best regards

  12. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    In Mandarin, Sifu is not used. The term sifu arises out of the Cantonese family based boxing styles, due to them being organized like a family. In Mandarin, the term Laoshi, or "Old Teacher", is used.

    Again, OLD.
  13. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Now you see, even an old dog can learn new tricks:D , I did not know that, and thanks for the input.

    But you do have to admit, to us unknowing western round eyes;) we do accept that the term Sifu is generaly used across the board as meaning instructor, and I personally see no harm in someone using it and don't nessesarily see them as being a Master even if they do use it.

    But then again it may well be a case of the westerner getting it all wrong again.

    Best regards
  14. inosanto1

    inosanto1 Valued Member

    i think the term Master is well overused in MA. MA as i stated before is a lifeling persuit, not even bruce liked the word, or considered himslef one. i have seen quite a few people use the term and was not impressed.

    Thanks for the help and advice pat at seni, i was the guy in the londsdale top in the stick session, i had that really tall bloke training with me :D
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    No probs mate, hope you enjoyed it, especially with the tall guy, I was going to give you a box to stand on to help you out:D

    Best regards

  16. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    The way I always understood it, in the west, is Sifu=instructor or father/teacher and Sigung=instructors instructor or grandfather teacher, my teachers teacher.

    That is the way I use it and my Sifu (who is by all accounts also a master) is actually Sigungs son. Together they evolved their Gung Fu from James Lees teachings. So by some accounts Sifu would be a Grandmaster but he calls himself Instructor.
  17. Simplicity

    Simplicity Valued Member

    That the way I've been taught!.........Sifu = Teacher.........Sigung = Your Teacher's Teacher, Sijo = Founder of Way........

    Peace, Love and Soul
  18. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    still waiting to hear how the fight went...
  19. billf1970

    billf1970 New Member

    he is a liar

    I am master Bill Foister this kid trained under me for maybe two months. Just about everything he said is a lie. I had to ask him not to come back for this reason he even back then was saying the same. You can find me on Facebook or here. This liar is on my Facebook I will set him straight tonight. His first name is Harold Morgan. I am a master been in Marshall arts since I was ten years old now at 45 I can say with pride I am a master. Any? Just ask.
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Why did you resurrect a 9 year old thread?
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