The Nine Schools

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by AndrewA, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    You can do a single kick, jumping or not, punch, grab, ankle pick, or any number of techniques. That's just the kata.
     
  2. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    When I speak to my students, I tend to use the statement not to think of the move but the movement

    A move is just part of a principal.
     
  3. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The clip looks like the typically traditional/formal training that's characteristic of the Jinenkan

    Towards the end of the clip he's doing some Togakure Ryu (ninja stuff) where the general idea is to damage the opponent's ability to chase you (eg striking their feet or legs with the weapon in your hands) and then create distance

    The kick he used is striking the ribs with both feet to propel him (& you) away. It's quite hard to create enough space/time to pull off kicks like this and I don't think he achieved this in the clip
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Regardless of the usefulness of such a technique, it looked to me like his ability to pull it off was limited by insufficient flexibility and a lack of explosive power in the jump (which is most likely affected by insufficient flexibility).
     
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  5. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    I haven't seen the video (at work) sounds like Hi Toh though. Archaic technique I think. I can see it as partly a good practice for distance and the ability to leap higher. I'd challenge anyone to show this being done well, as opposed to doing it more like a jump w side kick.
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I bet if you got someone high up in TKD or TSD who excelled at the gymnastics side, they could put up a convincing show of it.
     
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  7. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter


    Likely, but I guess looking at the viability of teaching something that is effective for most that train. This is not one of those techniques. Nor is it a technique you would likely use unless your opponent looks like they have cartoon stars spinning around their head.
    It is something that I looked at with what I do.
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pah! They still wouldn't do it Perfectly...

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

     
    hewho and Dead_pool like this.
  10. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    There are 2 main kinds of double kick in the buj

    1 Similar to the kicks posted by Hannibal - typically jumping in and kicking with both heels - quite aggressive and is a kind of overwhelming technique

    2 Toes or balls of the feet to the ribs (similar to the earlier clip) - this is quite similar to (linked to) jumping guard and is used when the opponent is on the back foot
     
  11. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Just my view for what its worth, but Hitoh (Although the kata in the clip is Kaeshi Dori) like any kata is not a fight, they are a series of training exercises that train the body to respond in a certain way to an attack. The technique that is being shown is from Togakure ryu and as such there may be a simple reason why the person is doing a double kicking attack in this way. What i'm trying to say is that kata are not the be all and end all. Whats important to know is the Kuden, of what the kata is actually teaching. Unfortunately many people look at the kata and view the art from just that, and thats a bit like looking at the alphabet and saying "Hmm the English language, I can't see how that works"
     
  12. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    I can totally understand the value of the kuden/unwritten value of the technique. I just think that focus on making the body respond in certain ways, or expecting it to naturally. Is counter productive. As an exercise ala ten tobi... if like that fine. But teaching it like it is a move, not a movement. Is dangerous, and I have seen it taught that way by a number of higher ranked.
     
  13. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That’s true of course

    But... generally speaking (some exceptions) the kata should really be drills and therefore have martial value
     
  14. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    100% there a lot of things I teach that itself is not a move just a piece of movement. Totally agreed, I think it is all in the context that it is taught. I think I probably over explain it to my bunch, so they don't get the wrong idea that I expect them to get into conflict and immediately do something like drop into a kamae expecting an attack.

    That alone is so hard to get across to some being a transitional movement, not to mention taught so literally from the Ten Chi Jin.

    For that matter, does anyone actually teach Hoko no Kamae like the way it is illustrated?
     
  15. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    Plus, in reality you'd be launching into the opponent with both feet. It's not a high-flying kick like a TKD jumping front kick. So if you're not putting 100 percent into kicking both of your heels into your uke's ribs, you just do a little leap. If you practice this type of kick against a padded wall, it's easier.
     

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