Okay, so I feel compelled to chase this rabbit a bit further down the hole... In this thread: A different question about forms, kata and patterns Tom had these things to say about forms: And: Which left me confused. You spot and take applications from the forms, but the forms are not where you get technique from... Forms are not abstracted from reality, but no-one moves in a fight like they do in a form... I'm happy to be told that I have very little understanding of how forms work, but how come no-one can tell me how forms work? This thread is an open question to anyone who trains forms. I am not going to comment, and would consider any criticism of forms to be off-topic. This is all about bigging-up the utility of forms as a training method. I am particularly interested to see if people from different arts see forms as fulfilling the same function in their training, or if there is a difference of opinion there. So I'll go with this format of two questions, but any supplementary material is welcome: 1. What is the relationship between forms and fighting? Do you see forms as abstracted lessons in mechanics, or techniques as they would be performed in a fight? Does it depend on the form? 2. Are forms paragons of good form and function? Are the technical ideals of a system contained within its forms? If not, what is the purpose of forms? Thanks in advance.