Your (first) sparring experience

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by JKD_forever, Nov 28, 2004.

  1. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Please, I'm still getting used to search option, so if i missed the similar post, please redirect me to it. :eek:

    What are your experience(s) with JKD sparring sessions, if anything, what was your first sparring session like, i would like to hear. :D Do you get confused as what to use next, do you relax... ready but not tense, etc
    I'm still waiting for my first session, but i think my numerous fights i had in bars will help me :rolleyes: :D
  2. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    I have not sparred in JKD yet as I have only trained in it for 2 months but I dread the day that I do because I know that I will go automatically back to left fighting stance kickboxing mode I have fought left stance in different martial arts for almost 18 years and right stance JKD still seems alien to me, hard habit to break. I am still trying to weigh up JKD, still not made my mind up about it yet, love the Kali using sticks and blades, just this JKD, I can see limitations and flaws with the system even in this basic pre phase level, I still say that Thai takes a lot of beating ( or you get a lot of beating practising Thai )
  3. cj256

    cj256 Valued Member

    my first jkd sparring experience was good i was just doin some gentle sparring at first with a couple of ex boxer guys that were much bigger than me ,but managed to come out fairly un battered :) and as we got more into the flow we started to introduce some nice knee work and elbows etc i managed to come out of that with a kneecap size lump below my knee cap it looked like i had two knees :eek: so im seriously trying to strenghthen my shins/legs any tips or hints would be wellcome,thx
  4. jaymdubbs

    jaymdubbs Valued Member


    old timer, what kind of limitations and flaws can you see already?
  5. getgoin

    getgoin Idiot Savant

    I got the crap beat out of me. Man I was bleeding inside for two days and loss the use of my left arm.

    Just kidding :D Its cool, they go slow at the start so there are no worries. Just keep your guard up and just keep moving, don't dance its not Auther Murry's its JKD, but keep moving.
  6. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    Right then, out of all the martial arts I have studied and practised over the last 18 years I consider WKA full contact kickboxing to be the most practical, useful and easy to learn. We are all individuals and as such we all perform certain techniques better than other people due to factors such as age, fitness and physical build. Factors such as back injuries or general wear and tear of the body such as knee cartilages can also play a significant part in how you perform or apply a martial art, (I know, I have them as well as tennis elbow) I have watched some of our JKD blokes with lighting fast footwork for example but they seem to be of a small build, the bigger build folk such as myself will be slower on their feet but generate a lot of power when they contact you, yes I know it is supposed not to be about power but technique, I have preached that often enough to students that I have trained but what about a bigger guy with technique and power ? How would you deal with a person with lighting fast JKD feet advancing on you ? A good kickboxing stance will give you good strong cover but when the kickboxer grabs you, fast feet are no use now as you are being hit with knees, hooks and uppercuts.

    What I meant about flaws etc was things that I do not think seem to suit me personally such as the fencing type of footwork, to me it is fine for a lightweight to propel forward, backwards or sideways, an heavyweight like I said will be slower so it will be less practical. Lots of us have worn out knees due to years of training and bad exercising which will limit our speed and mobility and those of you who have good knees I would suggest start taking cod liver oil and glucosotomine with chloritin, so to help to preserve your knees, watch how a Thai uses his stance / feet / propelling forward, backwards & sideways to see what can be done outside of JKD. To me The Pak Sau & Lap Sau techniques looks very impressive and I enjoy performing it but how would you apply it in a situation, ok you grab a person, he stops your grab so you Pak Sau him, would you really perform that technique? Possibly in a self defence situation I could see a place for it as a tit for tat kind of exchange thing but a good boxing cover would give you the guard against any punches anyway and you could quickly and easily shoot out a fist or elbow or grab / knee / elbow.

    The front thrust kick is no different to a conventional front thrust kick used in kickboxing, the round house kick in JKD we are told you can use the foot or shin, I prefer the shin, some of the standing grappling can easily be dealt with using close quarter roundhouse kicks or low kicks to inner shin or inner thigh or neck wrestling and knees ( kickboxers will know where I am coming from with this) The right stance strong side forward is ok in principle but to a person who is used to mainly left stance the hands can be trained to feel right but there will always be a slight difference in stance compared to your left and your covering of your groin area will leave you slightly more exposed. What if the JKD fighter is facing a left stance fighter, will he rely on the speed of his foot work to advance, right away I can see an opening for a shin kick or a thrust kick to the mid section, where the JKD fighter will have his rear heel off the ground to spring forward, I may have my rear foot firmly planted and my front heel is off the ground and is ready to fire a front kick or my front foot planted and my rear ready to throw a kick with my shin.

    I was always put off JKD because I thought that it was an exploited over commercialised martial art started but not completed by a great martial artist, now if the man had lived the art would of evolved into probably something different to what we perform to day, bear in mind that lots of people have jumped on the JKD bandwagon and “ added to, or completed “ the art as they think that it should be, all I am saying is who is to say what I am saying is wrong or right ?

    When I talk about kickboxing I talk about the WKA system which as Thai uses low kicks, knees and elbows, mix in a little practical single self defence techniques such as Pak Sau, Lap Sau a little Silat & my current favourite Kali to learn blade awareness, stripping, locks and simple strikes and you end up with a very efficient fighting and self defence system, or have I become another fan of the mixed martial arts, I just wish that I was 20 years younger again and just starting out.

    In the end what we have is how we are comfortable in applying a technique from a particular style or system, all styles have good points as well as bad, it is down to us as individuals to train in what we are comfy in and what suits our bodies best.

    I have not set out to offend anyone, I am just answering a question asked to me which I have answered, I will probably think of more to say as the day goes on but who wants to hear me babbling on and on and on………..

  7. jaymdubbs

    jaymdubbs Valued Member


    That is great. Kickboxing is an excellent martial art, and jun fan jeet kune do kickboxing incorporates all that.

    This depends on the martial artist because there is no ONE way to deal with it. A lot of JKDers are taught to crash in, like me. Crashing in and trapping the leg negates the opps legs, leaving him to fight in the clinch or trapping range. I also know how to trap, then flow in the grapple range. SO, it depends on the martial artist. that is NOT a weakness of JKD. that comes with experience.

    you are missing the point of trapping. you dont attack with a trap. you only trap if you need to. i cant explain this to you, you need a good instructor to give you months of great training to understand this concept. besides, a good JKDer would throw out a fist or elbow before a pak sao.

    it doesnt matter what stance you prefer as long as you can fight in both leads.

    there will always be openings, and im sure you have openings as well. with your front heel raised, a jkder could assume you willbe kicking, and stop kick your knee if you initiating a kick, either breaking it or just mildly injuring it. thats just one of the million things a JKDer could to.

    i am not trying to be offensive in anyway, but it seems you are jumping to conclusions way to soon. especially after only 2 months of training. If you dont like and it goes against everything you stand for in martial arts, then stop taking it.

    but it def. takes longer than 2 months to "get it"
  8. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    I will not stop doing it, it was meant merely as "observations" up until now, probably once I get to the next phase I may get a different perspective of it because thinking about it pre phase training will not give an overall acurate picture of the system just yet and I am comparing to my high grade Kung Fu, Karate and Kickboxing training. Anyway I couldnt quit if I wanted to now as my 17 year old daughter as started training with me now in JKD and after not seeing her much during the last 15 years I am now seeing her 3 times a week and I am chuffed to bits so something good as come from JKD for me personally.
  9. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Actually, JKD is very scientific approach to realistic fighting. One thing is that your movements may feel awkward because your strongest leg is front, and not in the back as in Karate, or TKD, or whatever, waiting for that “swing” and added power.
    And yes if Bruce was live today it would evolved into something else, but I think the stance, by which you seems so put off, is absolutely the greatest thing in JKD...
  10. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    I have been giving this a lot thought even while I was training last night. Have you trained in other styles apart from JKD, I dont mean it offensively but do you have an overall picture of the fighting arts, I have seen too many times that some martial artists have what we call "tunnel vision" regarding their own art and beleive everything that they are told with out finding out or questioning things or even trying and alternative way, I read recently that Bruce Lee preferred to teach people with martial arts experience because to find the true meaning of JKD you need something to compare it with, that is my thought exactly, I have 7 different styles to compare it with and thats not counting JKD, Kali or silat as they are relatively new to me during the last 2.5 months.
  11. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There is a difference of knowing the path and walking the path, :D come on Matrix any1??

    You don't have to eat tofu to know it tastes bad ( :D don't flanme be veggy people)
    i'm saying you don't have to train MA to know somethings worng with it.
    My Sifu actually "prefers" students who didn't have any previous MA training because he doesn't have to "undo" certain bad habits.
  12. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    And because they do not have the experience to question the effectiveness of techniques, poor warm ups, exercises that do more harm than good like I said "tunnel vision" can occur. I have trained with instructors who swear that their system is the best in the whole wide world ever but you can find flaws or the self defence techniques cannot possibly work giving a false sense of security, there is always going to be a difference of opinion in the martial arts, some people defend their styles because their instructor says it is the best look what happened to Wing Chun and TKD in the early 80's talk about politics. My own honest opinion for what it is worth is JKD is not a complete martial arts system, many different instructors have added their own speciality way to it to personalise it to their own capabilities, there will never be a definitive JKD for example JKD will just become a general name as a banner for hundreds of styles, in that way I mean JKD will be just a name such as Karate, Kung Fu or Kickboxing, just a name, and dont forget even Bruce Lee was not happy with the system and he made Dan Inosanto promise not to teach it after he closed his three schools! (read that in an article recently) And with that I think it best to leave it there !
  13. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sifu actually spends 10-15 min. of each class and talks about different MA, and why they differ from Jun Fan Jeet Kenu Do; not a single time he said a bad thing about Karate, TKD, you name it what, but only warned about pitfall those schools sell to students - ultimate self defense program, bla , bla ,bla.
    Lets face it Jun Fan JKD IS the best "style" for self defense, just people dont see it(oh ill get flamed for this) :D :D :D

    Ummmm, what is this thread about, again? :rolleyes:
  14. jaymdubbs

    jaymdubbs Valued Member


    yes i have. some tai chi and bagua, northern shaolin, aikido, karate. not for very long however, because these arts didnt captivate me like JKD did.

    i cant remember the exact quote, but lee himself once said my truth isnt yours. i have never said JKD is the end all be all ultimate martial art. what works for me wont work for you, and vice versa. but there are combat principles that are applicable to every martial art, and thats the beauty of JKD. no garbage, just what you need to survive. I enjoy the scientific approach that JKD offers.

    i disagree. from what i understand it was known that Ted wong was one of lee's top students because he had no martial arts background, so he didnt have to unlearn anything like a lot of lee's students. true, lee had many students already well versed in the martial arts, i also remember hearing about how many bad habits he had to break with them.

    even with 7 styles you shouldnt have to compare it with any. each style has its own limitations, strengths, and weaknesses. there isnt a quota to how many arts does it take for someone to find your way.

    tunnel vision? far from it. id say i have tunnel vision of getting people to be more open in the martial arts. open doesnt mean taking 10 different styles.

    open means open.

    they gain experience through the intial training. then they can start questioning effectiveness of techiques. in some traditional martial arts a student is supposed to blindly follow the teacher. JKD allows someone to grow individually, not grow as style.

    this is not to be offensive, but you make it sound like YOUR martial art is the ultimate one, consisting of 7 different styles. there are always going to flaws, there will always be openings, and there always will be a difference of opinion. i honestly havent heard anyone say that their respective martial art is thebest one ever. ive heard instructors say that their martial art is a very street effective art, and in every case ive seen, it is.

    no martial art system is complete. what is a complete martial art system? once again, that is up to the interpreter to decide.

    there should never be a definitive jkd, that was the point. jkd/self expression is someones expression of the combative arts. when someone asks me what style i practice, i want to say self expression. but when i have said that in the past, they dont understand. when i say JKD, theyre like "oh bruce lee's style" its hard to break that reputation, so for sake of converstaion i say JKD .

    banner? sure, if you want to call it that. however, just ask the people i fought at the tournament a month ago and see what they think of JKD now. i can tell you they thought very highly of jkd after they lost.

    from what i understand its not that bruce was unhappy, he didnt want it to become heavily commercialized. hence why the classes that were held had few students. this was also to facilitate the quality of teaching, preaching quality over quantity.
  15. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    Hi jaymdubbs,

    Its great that we can exchange our own views and interpretations of what we see is right or wrong, it is good to be different and not from the same mold, regarding you saying my style being the ultimate one I dont consider it to be so, out of all my styles Kickboxing has suited me best so I class my core as Kickboxing emphasis being more Thai orientated. Even with all my years of training I still sincerly consider myself as being a beginner and I encourage the people who I train to not dismiss any arts but to find their own paths, when you find it you will know. The beauty of the arts is the continual learning process which I am enjoying as much now with Kali as I was with Jitsu kenpo in 1980. Respect to you.
  16. jaymdubbs

    jaymdubbs Valued Member


    as well much respect to you for sticking with the martial arts for so long. just as we spar physically, its important to share and exchange ideas on the many different perspectives on the arts to get a better all around idea of combative expression.
  17. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well, come on guys, don't tell me nobody else wants to share ? :eek:
  18. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    "you must first empty your cup before you may drink my tea" This is my faviorite quote by Bruce Lee. Its about a story of a young boy learning form an old grandmaster. The grandmaster was trying to teach but the boy kept interjecting at every point and dissmissing everything. The grandmaster then picked up the kettle and started pouring tea into the young boys cup. The cup was already full and started overflowing. "stop" the young boy said "no more tea will fit in that cup". The master pointed out that this was exacly like the boys mind, too full of his own thoughts to accept or to consider some of the grandmasters.
    The obvious moral to this story is to keep an open mind. Jeet kwon do, is not a martial art per say. It is what Bruce Lee believed to be his expression of martial arts. The whole point of this form of art is for each student to bring in to it whatever they may feel works best for them and reject all that doesnt. That is the whole concept of Jeet Kwon do. Unlike that other traditional martial arts where u blindly follow what the master teaches and reject all other concepts.
    When you spar an oponent, you may be exceptionally good at doing the roundhouse fakie side kick como, so you use this all the time. You may find the triple roundhouse hook kicks to not work for you so you reject them. This can be done in all martial arts, though in the more traditional its not seemed proper. Jeet kwon do loves this.
    I gather from your post that your a kick boxer. I have a friend that has been doing kick boxing and tai chi for years, firstly starting in Afganistan to fight of the Taliban, he uses an outstretched side kick to block and attack at the same time, but i assume you may not use this. That is great, you are rejecting what doesnt work for you (my assumption) and using what does, so you are practising your own form of Jeet Kwon do.
    I do hope you guys can understand what im trying to say, Im a bit warn out from all the assesments I've been doing. :bang:
  19. cj256

    cj256 Valued Member

    thats jeet kune do by the way mate
  20. Silversideblind

    Silversideblind New Member

    I sparred in my second lesson and have several times since.

    The first was interesting since it was only hands I seemed to do not so badly. The next couple of weeks combining hands and feet I got slapped around a lot. To buy trying to think about what i was doing and really just acting as a walking target.

    The sparring I experience seems to be 90% Thai and Kali though, mainly I assume because the gloves are too cumbersome for effective intricate hand moves, or maybe because the students revert to whats most straight forwards. Unsure about that.

    I have improved in sparring, developing my lead leg kick gave me new options, my build makes my kicking fast and long ranged so I can operate very well behind the lead leg, it is probably frustrating for whoever is sparring me but its better than being punched around the head. I like to keep hopping out beyond their power range and using the advantage of fast kicks to create openings. Doesn't always get me there but its a start. I suppose the more i learn the more my technique will adapt. It doesn't help that my Hook and Uppercut are so pitifully weak, limits my effective options heavily.

    You do learn to cover up much better when you are being beaten around the head, but if I am honest I wasn't build for blocking I was built for evading. Keeping the strikable area offered to a minimum and jumping out of range and in again when it suits is the best tactic for me. With development of my footwork, speed and manouverability should be me two major advantages so I like to use as much as I can of both.

    I still get some sore smacks around the head and I always seem to regulate my power much more than my opponant, or at least it feels that way when i get hit for sure :D

    Something I am still uncomy with is how hard to strike, really I go by how sore the last punch in the head was :) If it hurts I add a little more venom to my next strike.

    The one thing that does frustrate me is when my opponant goes into 'your my punch bag mode'. Someone just forgetting all about gaurd and defense and using my head as a punchbag. I give the opportunity because I lack skill and sometimes I am so busy focuisng on my technique and correct stance and devliery of things, I allow the other guy to dominate me wtihout threat. Okay I know thats something not good for me to do, but does simply wandering up and slinging blow after blow onto an opponant serve any worth in sparring. In reality I wouldnt be standing there wondering about my techniques, I would be delivering the most crippling blows left open to me and in some cases that has been anything I please.
    I'm not sure if thats normal in sparring but its one of my little annoyances, sure hit me thats part of the act. Whats the use in throwing punches with an open inivtation to be crippled at the same time. In reality you wouldn't be throwing them because he will already have taken you clean out of the fight.

    Thats not a constant thing though, theres some very good and clever fighting styles also, and I get used as a punchbag in an all the more effective manner :)

    The joys of being a novice!

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