Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by TheMachine, Nov 24, 2005.
that's right, attack, attack so i can intercept you.
i looking at a few art, and try and make it work for me in sparring
I have one or two:
"I am going to break whatever you try and hit me with, then I am going to knock you down, then I am going to break anything you could use to help yourself up again. If there are no cameras and no witnesses pray to god that I get bored at that point...."
"Oooh!! There's a great lock/break/choke from there"
"Reasonable force??? Do I LOOK reasonable to you??"
"So if I take "This" from Kali, then "This" from Muay Thai, and finish with this from Ninjutsu, I ge the same technique, I think i'm going to like learning this."
Attack NOW as in ATTACK before that person gets chance.
Dont think HIT just HIT!!!
Learn, anaylsis, and examine.
look at every appraoch without pre-judgement
I though this would be a good location to post this interesting post that Steve Golden just re-posted on a forum.
I published the following commentary about five or six years ago. Have fun with it.
The reason I’m posting this is because I constantly get asked questions on the Original JKD vs. the JKD Concepts methods, disciplines, camps, and groups or however you might think of them. Rather than answer each request, I’ve asked my friend and student, Sean Madigan, to post my comments here once and for all.
Why me? I have over forty years in the martial arts and studied JKD directly with Bruce Lee. I have been involved in JKD to some extent since 1967. I think you would agree that it does qualify me to have an opinion.
First, one very important note: Original JKD should be called Jun Fan (Bruce Lee’s Chinese name) Jeet Kune Do, meaning Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do. But, to be consistent with the general public’s understanding and discussions of Original vs. Concepts, I will use the term Original except where the name Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do would make my meaning more clear.
I’ll start off with my own opinion and then comment on what I hear coming from each group.
My View of the JKD Concepts and Original JKD camps:
First of all, when we talk of groups, you absolutely must remember that groups are made up of individuals. It is always a mistake to describe every person of a group by the group’s statements or stance. Whenever you hear that this group does or says this or that, you should never assume that any specific individual of the group agrees in total or in part with the statement of the “group.”
The truth about Jeet Kune Do is that Bruce Lee left a wealth of written, spoken and film information. In addition he taught many people personally and in groups over a period of years during his own growth and experiences. As with anything of value and complexity, much of what remains is open to interpretation. In the search for perfection in the martial arts, some people feel that Bruce expected each person to find his or her own way. Others feel that Bruce left specific information on how to choose one’s path. There is no definitive answer. It is, and should be open to each person’s interpretation.
The wisest and most effective martial artists I’ve run into have developed a middle ground where they are comfortable. They do exactly as Bruce did as long as that fits them and their goals. They vary from that path whenever it is to their advantage to do so. They are not locked into either method because each “way” creates its own artificial boundaries. They also do not go around yelling and screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. In my forty plus years of involvement in martial arts, I’ve found that people do best in what they like and believe in. It does not really matter whether or not others think that what they are doing is best. If you like what you are doing, you may become very effective with it. If you do not like what you are doing, it will hurt your performance.
There is no absolute answer to what Bruce Lee meant for us to do. My suggestion is to do what you like and let others do what they like. And don’t take it personally if someone else’s truth is not your own.
Original JKD’s and JKD Concepts’ views of the two camps:
Now I’d like to discuss opinions and comments I’ve heard from both camps. These are common definitions or descriptions. It is very important to note that these are NOT my definitions but merely my paraphrasing what I hear and read about the two main camps. It is also important to realize that this is a compilation and does not represent any one individual’s opinion. As I stated above, any specific individual may or may not agree with the group’s position on any of this.
Original JKD as described by its followers
This is the fighting method used and taught by Bruce Lee and is based on his personal studies, training and experience. It includes only that which Bruce Lee actually practiced and/or taught in his lifetime. This is because, to do otherwise, would make Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do something other than Bruce Lee’s art of Jeet Kune Do. All other arts and methods are left to each individual allowing them to develop their own JKD with the understanding that it is theirs and not Bruce Lee’s.
Original JKD as described by the followers of the JKD Concepts group:
(Author’s note: Remember, these are not my comments. They are comments I’ve heard from people in the JKD Concepts group.)
The Original JKD group tries to exactly follow what Bruce Lee was doing. In this process, they don’t acknowledge what Bruce Lee would have wanted us to do. They ignore the fact that Bruce investigated other arts and they forget that things have changed over the last twenty-five years. They think, “Bruce Lee would have wanted us to do exactly what he did. They think that if Bruce Lee was alive today he would be happy that we put limits on his unbounded methods.”
My view on the Original JKD camp:
The Original JKD group tries to exactly “teach” what Bruce Lee was doing. That is far different from trying to “do” what Bruce Lee was doing. They do not ignore the last twenty-five years, but, since the goal is to promote what Bruce Lee said and did during his life, they find the last twenty-five years irrelevant to those teachings. This is the same as a history course in the life and music of Beethoven. We study his life and we study his music. We may listen and enjoy his music. But we do not assume what he would have written if he lived another thirty years. And just as the study of Beethoven’s life and works stops at his death, that study does not suggest that any person should limit their music experience to Beethoven. In the same sense, the study of Bruce Lee, his life, his art and his teachings does not require, or even suggest, that your experience should stop at that point. The Original JKD’s teachings are a very solid base from which practitioners should build their own personal methods. The only limits the Original JKD camp has is that someone’s personal JKD not be called Bruce Lee’s JKD, i.e., Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.
JKD Concepts as described by its followers
Bruce Lee’s ideas about fighting can be stated as the theory that each person must find his or her own method of realistic combat. Although there may be individual differences, there is also a recommended set of methods to be learned, explored and studied before settling on one’s own personal combat system. The personal exploration, however, is not limited to these recommendations, but the end result must be a realistic fighting system, style or method. Some of the currently recommended studies include Thai Boxing, Escrima/Kali, Silat, Brazilian Jujitsu, Western boxing as well as a few others. This is what Bruce Lee said we should do and it is the way Jeet Kune Do should be taught and practiced.
JKD Concepts as described by the followers of the Original JKD group:
(Author’s note: Once again, remember, these are not my comments. They are comments I’ve heard from people in the Original JKD group.)
The JKD Concepts practice consists of arts that Bruce Lee never practiced although he may have investigated them. The JKD Concepts groups also practice Bruce Lee’s methods, which they call Jun Fan, mostly for the historical aspect. But they do not put the required effort onto mastering Jun Fan. It just becomes one of the many systems they put together to be called Jeet Kune Do. The only thing of Bruce Lee’s that they hold onto in almost every case is the name of his method, Jeet Kune Do. They think, “Bruce would have wanted us to practice the systems that he didn’t practice. If he was alive today he would be doing the very same thing.”
My view on the JKD Concepts camp:
The JKD Concepts group realizes that Bruce Lee never meant for his system or methods to become anyone else’s methods. Bruce Lee said that each individual should find his or her own way to perfection. Individuals of JKD Concepts study whichever systems they feel would best help them become more effective. This may or may not include anything Bruce Lee taught. The JKD Concepts group is even more varied in ideas and opinions than the Original JKD camp because there are no limits in the number or types of systems studied. Some practitioners may study five or six arts and others may concentrate on one. Since these differing approaches work for the individual, as Bruce Lee would have wanted, the systems are still called JKD. So there are times, even within the JKD Concepts groups, when there is no common ground other than the agreement that whatever works for you is what you should be doing. They are using the JKD the way they understand Bruce Lee described it.
To summarize my view, I have to say that people from different systems and methods have fought for centuries over which systems are the most effective. The only agreement, and even this is rare, is over which person is best at any given time and this too is certainly temporary and changes with time. Bruce Lee said that Jeet Kune Do is only a name and could be thrown away. In the same sense, if Jeet Kune Do is only a name, then it can be used any way you think is correct. Don’t get too excited over the name in either case. Expend your energy training the way you want instead of being critical of those who choose another path. In every instance I’ve experienced, when people of both camps get together in the spirit of sharing instead of confrontation, all participants come out of it as winners.
Fill the emptiness... where ever there is an opening fill it with a fist.
Also like to tell my students.... Condition, Position, Submission!
thats very true.hit ,hit and hit them again
I, personally, focus on interception. I like to keep things as simple, effective and direct as possible.
Emanate. Explore. Evolve.
My JKD school has a cool description of a JKD fighter... and that is that we are a different breed of fighter. We are not boxers, we are not wrestlers, we are not Shaolin monks or Thai warriors, we are simply fighters that use all of our tools to our advantage. Unlike most other martial arts that have a specific way, we have no way, our way is all ways and no ways and we simply use the most efficient method depending on the situation. That being said, we are "a different breed of fighter".
"A mortal soul's potential is limited only by its perception."
"A few simple techniques well presented, an aim clearly seen, are better than a tangled maze of data whirling is disorganized educational chaos."
"Circumstances in a fight change from milli-second to milli-second and thus pre-arranged patterns and techniques being static are not adequate in dealing with such a changing situation."
-Wikipedia, "Jeet Kune Do"
I do see a lot of responses that lead US "choosing no way as way" BEFORE we achieve "way."
Thats fine if we have the intelligence and skill to do "it" but it leads us back to the beginning of "our" training as we pursue our path. Again that is fine if an individual chooses that path.
But why the attachment to hte name JKD. If we are going to quote Bruce so much. Why not DROP THE NAME OF JKD as Bruce also said.
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."
Separate names with a comma.